Pres. Administration Intentionally Lied

[joeydb]

Originally Posted by Danzig

i don't drink kool aid, obama, cruz or any other flavor.
and guess what, all us suckers who work for a living pay for it-regardless of what it's called.
so, right now i pay premiums and taxes.
hey, what if we all just paid taxes, instead of premiums AND taxes? and no convoluted system of
how much do you make
your wife
does your employer offer coverage?
if yes, you have to buy theirs-unless it's not up to aca snuff.
if not, you go thru an exchange.
then subsidies come into play.
oh, you got a raise, you have to pay this much back.
oh, a child graduated?
oh, you divorced?
oh, halfway thru the year she got a job/quit a job?

all while the health insurance companies make a profit.

so..single payer. no web sites. no medicare, no medicaid, no subsidies, no profit margin, none of the mess. yeah, that would be wayyy worse.


obamacare is a horrible, godawful mess. i doubt it turns out well. i understand why the attempt has been made, but not the way they chose to do it.
single payer failed not because it's a bad idea, or that too many are against it.
it's that the few against it are those who make money, tons of it, off the current system. they paid to get this crap passed, and stocks soared after the scotus ruling for a reason.

i understand that you think 'socialized' means something, but you prefer people making tons of money off the current system? lots of money to be made, and it's going to be made like crazy.

So are you assuming the taxes would be the same? "Single payer" will be even higher in tax burden - high enough that your premiums + current taxes will seem low by comparison.

Socialized medicine sucks. Long lines, inadequate care and much higher mortality rates. An Orwellian nightmare in the truest sense. The total politicization of health care. And again, the supply will be less even as the demand goes up.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by joeydb

So are you assuming the taxes would be the same? "Single payer" will be even higher in tax burden - high enough that your premiums + current taxes will seem low by comparison.

Socialized medicine sucks. Long lines, inadequate care and much higher mortality rates. An Orwellian nightmare in the truest sense. The total politicization of health care. And again, the supply will be less even as the demand goes up.

how would it be higher? for starters, no need to turn a profit. no need to make shareholders happy. it wouldn't be a business, it would be a service.
if we're no healthier with the 'greatest care in the world' and the highest price, how would we get a higher mortality rate?
medical costs here have been astronomical for years, because those of us with insurance have been paying through the nose, both in premium and in bills, to cover those without.


as for mortality rates--do you think the u.s. enjoys the highest life expectancy with this 'great care'? because guess what-we don't. we are currently ranked 33rd in the world. all that cost, all this advanced medicine...and we're 33rd, tied with our ally BAHRAIN. also with costa rica, chile and denmark. south korea and kuwait have a better rate...oh, and check out the others ahead of us. how many of them have 'socialized' medicine?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...ife_expectancy

infant mortality--we rank 34th behind even cuba!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...mortality_rate


now, tell me again how we have the best care in the world?

[dellinger63]

The fact we as a nation are obese wouldn't have anything to do with it.

What are the stats comparing drug/alcohol positive babies born here compared to in Cuba?

I'm sure that has nothing to do with it either.

[jms62]

Originally Posted by dellinger63

The fact we as a nation are obese wouldn't have anything to do with it.

What are the stats comparing drug/alcohol positive babies born here compared to in Cuba?

I'm sure that has nothing to do with it either.

Has everything to do with it but you know that.

[Danzig]

http://www.bloomberg.com/visual-data...care-countries


we rank number one in the world on spending on health care.

where do we rank on efficiency in the world, in regards to health care? not first.

46th!
note that japan is at the top on life expectancy and efficiency. i'm sure tho that it's just a coincidence.

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by Danzig

http://www.bloomberg.com/visual-data...care-countries


we rank number one in the world on spending on health care.

where do we rank on efficiency in the world, in regards to health care? not first.

46th!
note that japan is at the top on life expectancy and efficiency. i'm sure tho that it's just a coincidence.

As others have said, we have a terrible obesity problem in this country. They don't have that problem in Japan. People in Japan have much healthier diets. I think they live longer because of that, not because of a better healthcare system. How can you expect people in this country to live longer than in Japan with our high levels of obesity?

I think a lot of the numbers in that chart are very misleading. Practically every medical facility in this country has a cash price, in addition to their retail price. I needed an MRI last year. I asked what the price was and they told me it was $2,300. I had a high deductible so my insurance wasn't going to do me any good. I asked them how much it would be if I just paid cash and didn't go through my insurance company. If I paid cash the price was only $500.

It is pretty silly that a place will charge $2,300 to the insurance company but only $500 if you pay cash. That shows that our system certainly needs some reform. But as I said before, I still prefer our imperfect system to most other countries' healthcare systems. I'd rather pay $500 in this country and get my MRI immediately than have to wait for 4 or 5 months in countries like England and Canada.

[joeydb]

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

As others have said, we have a terrible obesity problem in this country. They don't have that problem in Japan. People in Japan have much healthier diets. I think they live longer because of that, not because of a better healthcare system. How can you expect people in this country to live longer than in Japan with our high levels of obesity?

I think a lot of the numbers in that chart are very misleading. Practically every medical facility in this country has a cash price, in addition to their retail price. I needed an MRI last year. I asked what the price was and they told me it was $2,300. I had a high deductible so my insurance wasn't going to do me any good. I asked them how much it would be if I just paid cash and didn't go through my insurance company. If I paid cash the price was only $500.

It is pretty silly that a place will charge $2,300 to the insurance company but only $500 if you pay cash. That shows that our system certainly needs some reform. But as I said before, I still prefer our imperfect system to most other countries' healthcare systems. I'd rather pay $500 in this country and get my MRI immediately than have to wait for 4 or 5 months in countries like England and Canada.

i'd imagine the cash price is there, much like with auto body shops, because if you have to deal with insurance the payout could take months.

yes, there's obesity here. what that has to do with our efficiency of care and infant mortality i don't know. we have obesity because we have poverty-seems to be counterintuitive, right? it's not, because study after study has shown that people with very limited funds have to get as many calories with as few dollars as possible-hence, bad diet, obesity. i doubt one in seven in japan is on food stamps. i wonder what japans poverty level is. i'll look. i also wonder if many of their lower paid workers are also on subsistence such as food stamps, since so many of our employed are working poor, because walmart, fast food etc don't pay a decent wage, unlike in the past when minimum wage was enough to support oneself.

also, more kids then ever in this country are in a poor household, with food insecurity. this also affects our education, as studies have shown that kids raised in poverty don't do as well in school, which will cause another downward spiral. these things will all present a snowball effect in this country.