Pres. Administration Intentionally Lied

[Danzig]

four trophies? to celebrate that saudi kings can get medical care here, but a lot of our own citizens can't?

oh, bravo.

[bigrun]

Originally Posted by Danzig

four trophies? to celebrate that saudi kings can get medical care here, but a lot of our own citizens can't?

oh, bravo.

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by Danzig

four trophies? to celebrate that saudi kings can get medical care here, but a lot of our own citizens can't?

oh, bravo.

Our current health care system certainly isn't great. I would certainly like to see some reform. But overall, I think our health care is the best in the world. Yes, it is expensive but there is always going to be a trade-off. In other countries where it is cheaper, it's not as cheap as it appears because most of those countries have higher taxes, so you are still paying for it indirectly. Not only that, in many of those countries there are long waits to get fairly routine procedures. If I want to get an MRI right now, I'd rather pay $500 for it right now rather than have to wait for 5 months and and get it for free.

When you compare our health care to other countries, there are things better about ours and there are things better about theirs. But when you weigh all the pros and cons, I still think ours is the best.

By the way, I have no problem requiring everyone to have health insurance. In California, everyone has to have auto insurance. If auto insurance is required, I don't see a problem with health insurance being required.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

Our current health care system certainly isn't great. I would certainly like to see some reform. But overall, I think our health care is the best in the world. Yes, it is expensive but there is always going to be a trade-off. In other countries where it is cheaper, it's not as cheap as it appears because most of those countries have higher taxes, so you are still paying for it indirectly. Not only that, in many of those countries there are long waits to get fairly routine procedures. If I want to get an MRI right now, I'd rather pay $500 for it right now rather than have to wait for 5 months and and get it for free.

When you compare our health care to other countries, there are things better about ours and there are things better about theirs. But when you weigh all the pros and cons, I still think ours is the best.

By the way, I have no problem requiring everyone to have health insurance. In California, everyone has to have auto insurance. If auto insurance is required, I don't see a problem with health insurance being required.

i agree that our health care is the best-but, it's not worth a damn if you can't access it.

[dellinger63]

Originally Posted by Danzig

i agree that our health care is the best-but, it's not worth a damn if you can't access it.

What a great motivation to do something with your life.

Starting with graduating from high-school child/felony-free.

[Danzig]

another issue arising for many:

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_a...overnment.html


insurance companies have been getting their ducks in a row for a while. some plans won't be continued, much like the one described in the article. how many people will have gaps in coverage because of this?
i wonder tho if the article's subject contacted her current insurer, who most likely has other options besides the plan that is being discontinued-no doubt because it doesn't meet minimum requirements.
yet another issue with the govt mandating various things that have to be covered, whether one wants them or not. it would be nice if they could still offer catastrophic coverage, without doctor co pays, testing, etc. not everyone needs every available bit of coverage.

[dellinger63]

Originally Posted by Danzig

another issue arising for many:

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_a...overnment.html
it would be nice if they could still offer catastrophic coverage, without doctor co pays, testing, etc. not everyone needs every available bit of coverage.

Or maternal coverage for non-child baring customers. Whether it be due to medical, choice or sexual orientation.

I think there may be a niche market for insurers to offer catastrophic insurance outside of ACA. For those who may choose it's economically sound to pay the penalty, at least the first and second years.

I guess just like we won't know what Obamacare is until we pass it we won't know how bad it is until it's implemented.

Let Round 1 begin Jan 1. No delays!

[joeydb]

Originally Posted by Danzig

four trophies? to celebrate that saudi kings can get medical care here, but a lot of our own citizens can't?

oh, bravo.

Um - no - four trophies to celebrate that we have the best medical system in the world - the one that Saudi Kings - who can afford the best - come to in order to save their own lives.

Don't you think that's indicative of the quality and innovation that we had prior to this Obamacare BS? You think we just magically whipped up some great doctors and facilities for the once in a while that some bigshot comes into the country to get treated? Get real. We have made many strides in the access to healthcare, the technology of new treatments, medicines, and the like ever since "modern" medicine first started during the Civil War. That's 150 years of progress.

I should say we "had" the best because you're going to get your way - the medical industry will essentially be destroyed and we will be as mediocre as other nations. We'll get the UK's breast cancer survivability stats instead of our current, higher stats.

Look up the cancer survival statistics in general. Ours are the highest. Anything that adds delay to treatment is a bad idea, and that is exactly what will happen when the red tape gets in the way, and when doctors start retiring early, and when there are fewer applying to medical school. Do the math. Less supply meeting more demand equals longer delays in treatment. And, consequently - higher death rates. These aren't reported unless the person actually makes it to the hospital. Dying while waiting for an appointment or a surgery is easily ignored by the government statisticians.

Obamacare's biggest sin is that it is STUPID. You can't force "bending the cost curve" without DENYING service, and allowing whatever the consequences of that to manifest themselves on would-be patients.

And by the way - there is no such thing as "single payer". That is the name for socialized medicine, yes, but the payers are the same as always - all us suckers who work for a living. If 47% are paying no taxes, the other 53% are your "single payer".

It's time to stop drinking the Obama Kool Aid.

Originally Posted by joeydb

It's time to stop drinking the Obama Kool Aid.

No Kool Aid available any more. It was all stockpiled by the Tea Party in preparation for the coming apocalypse.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by joeydb

Um - no - four trophies to celebrate that we have the best medical system in the world - the one that Saudi Kings - who can afford the best - come to in order to save their own lives.

Don't you think that's indicative of the quality and innovation that we had prior to this Obamacare BS? You think we just magically whipped up some great doctors and facilities for the once in a while that some bigshot comes into the country to get treated? Get real. We have made many strides in the access to healthcare, the technology of new treatments, medicines, and the like ever since "modern" medicine first started during the Civil War. That's 150 years of progress.

I should say we "had" the best because you're going to get your way - the medical industry will essentially be destroyed and we will be as mediocre as other nations. We'll get the UK's breast cancer survivability stats instead of our current, higher stats.

Look up the cancer survival statistics in general. Ours are the highest. Anything that adds delay to treatment is a bad idea, and that is exactly what will happen when the red tape gets in the way, and when doctors start retiring early, and when there are fewer applying to medical school. Do the math. Less supply meeting more demand equals longer delays in treatment. And, consequently - higher death rates. These aren't reported unless the person actually makes it to the hospital. Dying while waiting for an appointment or a surgery is easily ignored by the government statisticians.

Obamacare's biggest sin is that it is STUPID. You can't force "bending the cost curve" without DENYING service, and allowing whatever the consequences of that to manifest themselves on would-be patients.

And by the way - there is no such thing as "single payer". That is the name for socialized medicine, yes, but the payers are the same as always - all us suckers who work for a living. If 47% are paying no taxes, the other 53% are your "single payer".

It's time to stop drinking the Obama Kool Aid.

i don't drink kool aid, obama, cruz or any other flavor.
and guess what, all us suckers who work for a living pay for it-regardless of what it's called.
so, right now i pay premiums and taxes.
hey, what if we all just paid taxes, instead of premiums AND taxes? and no convoluted system of
how much do you make
your wife
does your employer offer coverage?
if yes, you have to buy theirs-unless it's not up to aca snuff.
if not, you go thru an exchange.
then subsidies come into play.
oh, you got a raise, you have to pay this much back.
oh, a child graduated?
oh, you divorced?
oh, halfway thru the year she got a job/quit a job?

all while the health insurance companies make a profit.

so..single payer. no web sites. no medicare, no medicaid, no subsidies, no profit margin, none of the mess. yeah, that would be wayyy worse.


obamacare is a horrible, godawful mess. i doubt it turns out well. i understand why the attempt has been made, but not the way they chose to do it.
single payer failed not because it's a bad idea, or that too many are against it.
it's that the few against it are those who make money, tons of it, off the current system. they paid to get this crap passed, and stocks soared after the scotus ruling for a reason.

i understand that you think 'socialized' means something, but you prefer people making tons of money off the current system? lots of money to be made, and it's going to be made like crazy.

[joeydb]

Originally Posted by Danzig

i don't drink kool aid, obama, cruz or any other flavor.
and guess what, all us suckers who work for a living pay for it-regardless of what it's called.
so, right now i pay premiums and taxes.
hey, what if we all just paid taxes, instead of premiums AND taxes? and no convoluted system of
how much do you make
your wife
does your employer offer coverage?
if yes, you have to buy theirs-unless it's not up to aca snuff.
if not, you go thru an exchange.
then subsidies come into play.
oh, you got a raise, you have to pay this much back.
oh, a child graduated?
oh, you divorced?
oh, halfway thru the year she got a job/quit a job?

all while the health insurance companies make a profit.

so..single payer. no web sites. no medicare, no medicaid, no subsidies, no profit margin, none of the mess. yeah, that would be wayyy worse.


obamacare is a horrible, godawful mess. i doubt it turns out well. i understand why the attempt has been made, but not the way they chose to do it.
single payer failed not because it's a bad idea, or that too many are against it.
it's that the few against it are those who make money, tons of it, off the current system. they paid to get this crap passed, and stocks soared after the scotus ruling for a reason.

i understand that you think 'socialized' means something, but you prefer people making tons of money off the current system? lots of money to be made, and it's going to be made like crazy.

So are you assuming the taxes would be the same? "Single payer" will be even higher in tax burden - high enough that your premiums + current taxes will seem low by comparison.

Socialized medicine sucks. Long lines, inadequate care and much higher mortality rates. An Orwellian nightmare in the truest sense. The total politicization of health care. And again, the supply will be less even as the demand goes up.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by joeydb

So are you assuming the taxes would be the same? "Single payer" will be even higher in tax burden - high enough that your premiums + current taxes will seem low by comparison.

Socialized medicine sucks. Long lines, inadequate care and much higher mortality rates. An Orwellian nightmare in the truest sense. The total politicization of health care. And again, the supply will be less even as the demand goes up.

how would it be higher? for starters, no need to turn a profit. no need to make shareholders happy. it wouldn't be a business, it would be a service.
if we're no healthier with the 'greatest care in the world' and the highest price, how would we get a higher mortality rate?
medical costs here have been astronomical for years, because those of us with insurance have been paying through the nose, both in premium and in bills, to cover those without.


as for mortality rates--do you think the u.s. enjoys the highest life expectancy with this 'great care'? because guess what-we don't. we are currently ranked 33rd in the world. all that cost, all this advanced medicine...and we're 33rd, tied with our ally BAHRAIN. also with costa rica, chile and denmark. south korea and kuwait have a better rate...oh, and check out the others ahead of us. how many of them have 'socialized' medicine?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...ife_expectancy

infant mortality--we rank 34th behind even cuba!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...mortality_rate


now, tell me again how we have the best care in the world?

[dellinger63]

The fact we as a nation are obese wouldn't have anything to do with it.

What are the stats comparing drug/alcohol positive babies born here compared to in Cuba?

I'm sure that has nothing to do with it either.

[jms62]

Originally Posted by dellinger63

The fact we as a nation are obese wouldn't have anything to do with it.

What are the stats comparing drug/alcohol positive babies born here compared to in Cuba?

I'm sure that has nothing to do with it either.

Has everything to do with it but you know that.