Cross another hypocrite off the list

[Downthestretch55]

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

I totally disagree with anyone that says people's rights are being violated if gay marriage is illegal. Nobody's rights are being violated. Everyone has the same rights. Every man has the right to marry a woman. The rules are the same for everyone.

I'll give you a few different analogies. I live in a condominium building. They have rules. Since most people go to bed around 11:00pm, you are not allowed to play loud music after 11:00pm. Let's say that I'm different from most people. I stay up very late. I go to bed at 3:00am. If I made the same argument as you guys, I could say that my rights are being violated. I'm a night person, so the rules should be different for me. I should be allowed to blast my music late at night. Otherwise, my rights are being violated. This argument is silly. My rights are not being violated. The rules are the same for everyone. Everyone has to stop playing their music at 11:00pm. Just because I'm different and am a night person, that doesn't mean that the rules should change for me. I can't expect everyone else to accomodate me just because I'm different.

I'll give you another analogy. Alcohol is legal in this country. Cocaine is not. Let's say that I dont like alcohol but I do like cocaine. I guess I could say that if I was a cocaine user that my rights are being violated. I could say that I'm not like most people. I don't like alcohol. I like cocaine. Therefore, the government has to make cocaine legal for me or my rights are being violated. This argument is silly. My rights are not being violated. The rules are the same for me as everyone else. We are all allowed to drink alcohol but we are not allowed to take cocaine. Just because I prefer cocaine, it does not mean that the government needs to change the laws for me.

You can't simply label yourself and then ask for special rights. You can't say, "I am gay. Therefore I should be allowed to marry a man". If it was that easy, and all you had to do was label yourself someting and then the laws would change for you, it would be ridiculous.

I have a good idea. I'm going to label myself as a high-energy, fast-paced person. Therefore, I like to drive fast so I should not have to obey the speed limits. I don't care if the speed limit is 65 mph. I am a fast-paced person and should be allowed to drive 90 mph. My rights are being violated if you don't let me drive 90 mph.

You can't simply label yourself as something and then demand special rights. You can't say, "I'm gay. Therefore I should be allowed to marry a man or otherwise my rights are being violated." It's a silly argument and that's the argument you guys are making. A couple of you have said that if someone says they are gay that they should be able to marry someone of the same sex or else their rights are being violated. I think that's a weak argument.

Rupert,
I wasn't going to respond, because it doesn't seem that any amount of reason will change your views.
In answer to your first example, if you want to hear loud music late at night, put on headphones and blast away. Your actions will not interfere with others' sleep.
The "alcohol/cocaine" premise doesn't deserve comment.
Regarding driving over the speed limit, gosh, does it seem that doing so would jeopardize the safety of others?
So, again the questions...What do the actions of consenting adults in the privacy of their own bedrooms have to do with either compromising your safety, or causing you threat? What right do you have for denying them their rights (civil), or in human terms, the possibility of their expressing their love. Finally, why, other than for taxation purposes, shoud the government even be involved in citizens' private lives?
I just don't get it.
DTS

[Danzig]

loud music infringes on the right of others, as does dwi...but how does a gay getting married infringe on anothers rights? it DOESN'T. it does allow him the SAME rights as others.
driving is a privilege, not a right. the analogy is a poor one.

[brianwspencer]

Originally Posted by Danzig188

loud music infringes on the right of others, as does dwi...but how does a gay getting married infringe on anothers rights? it DOESN'T. it does allow him the SAME rights as others.
driving is a privilege, not a right. the analogy is a poor one.

amen, they are all terrible examples.

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by Danzig188

loud music infringes on the right of others, as does dwi...but how does a gay getting married infringe on anothers rights? it DOESN'T. it does allow him the SAME rights as others.
driving is a privilege, not a right. the analogy is a poor one.

You are correct that with a couple of those examples, there is the issue of infringing on others, while there is no such issue with gay marriage. I agree with that. However, with the cocaine analogy, there is no such infringement. If a person wants to do cocaine, he is not hurting anyone else.

[brianwspencer]

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

You are correct that with a couple of those examples, there is the issue of infringing on others, while there is no such issue with gay marriage. I agree with that. However, with the cocaine analogy, there is no such infringement. If a person wants to do cocaine, he is not hurting anyone else.

The cocaine one is sort of left field though, Rupert. While it hurts nobody else -- many laws are codified in order to force people to not hurt themselves as well as others. Allowing gay marriage hurts neither heterosexuals nor homosexuals, so while the analogy was well-intentioned and I see where you were going with it...it doesn't really work.

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by brianwspencer

The cocaine one is sort of left field though, Rupert. While it hurts nobody else -- many laws are codified in order to force people to not hurt themselves as well as others. Allowing gay marriage hurts neither heterosexuals nor homosexuals, so while the analogy was well-intentioned and I see where you were going with it...it doesn't really work.

I appreciate debating with you. Even though we may disagree, you are open-minded and are tolerant of opposing views. That's really all that I am asking for.

It seems that you toatally understand why the majority of people are against gay marriage. You may not agree with them, but you appreciate their viewpoint and you respect it. You realize that good people can differ on this issue and just because someone is against gay marriage, that does not make them a biggot or homophobe.

I think that strong arguments can be made in favor of gay marriage. But I also think that there are strong arguments against it.

[Downthestretch55]

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

I appreciate debating with you. Even though we may disagree, you are open-minded and are tolerant of opposing views. That's really all that I am asking for.

It seems that you toatally understand why the majority of people are against gay marriage. You may not agree with them, but you appreciate their viewpoint and you respect it. You realize that good people can differ on this issue and just because someone is against gay marriage, that does not make them a biggot or homophobe.

I think that strong arguments can be made in favor of gay marriage. But I also think that there are strong arguments against it.

Rupert,
I'm a bit confused. You've answered others but somehow left me out. See my post #48. The questions I asked remain unanswered.
Also, I'm also awaiting a "strong argument" in opposition to "gay marriage".
Do you have one?
DTS

[brianwspencer]

Originally Posted by Downthestretch55

Rupert,
I'm a bit confused. You've answered others but somehow left me out. See my post #48. The questions I asked remain unanswered.
Also, I'm also awaiting a "strong argument" in opposition to "gay marriage".
Do you have one?
DTS

See Rupert's post #56. I don't really agree with the slippery slope argument -- but that post is a good example of why many rational people don't favor gay marriage.

Though, I would contend that on the flipside of that rational argument there is a huge group of people who don't favor gay marriage because of their fear and ignorance regarding homosexuals. There are a great number of people who hate homosexuals and are bigots and are homophobic and are therefore against gay marriage -- but not everyone who is against gay marriage is a homophobe or a bigot...see how that works?