Butch Lehr on bias controversy -- Horseplayer Daily

[packerbacker7964]

For yhose of you quoting Beyer. I'd take a flashlight with me in the mourning if he told the sun was going to rise.

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Brad Free is also on record saying that the Churchill main favored inside runners and hurt outside runners.Wrote it when he was writing about how QLM was gunna fly home in the Moccasin.

[brianwspencer]

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER

Brad Free is also on record saying that the Churchill main favored inside runners and hurt outside runners.Wrote it when he was writing about how QLM was gunna fly home in the Moccasin.

i notice how you didn't address any of the pertinent points of one of my previous posts -- how QLM was compromised by a wide trip with the best horses setting slow fractions. Breeders' Cup or not, that's how you lose races....letting the best horse in the race lope along at her own pace.

Again (aka the third time tonight)......your point?

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Originally Posted by brianwspencer

i notice how you didn't address any of the pertinent points of one of my previous posts -- how QLM was compromised by a wide trip with the best horses setting slow fractions. Breeders' Cup or not, that's how you lose races....letting the best horse in the race lope along at her own pace.

Again (aka the third time tonight)......your point?

Since you seem to want to change the subject,I will reset,and then move on to what you're btchn about.

"Brad Free is also on record saying that the Churchill main favored inside runners and hurt outside runners.Wrote it when he was writing about how QLM was gunna fly home in the Moccasin."

[brianwspencer]

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER

"Brad Free is also on record saying that the Churchill main favored inside runners and hurt outside runners.Wrote it when he was writing about how QLM was gunna fly home in the Moccasin."

ok and i will make this the third [3rd] time i have said this. QLM was compromised by the rest of the field letting the best horse in the race lope along on the front end with no pressure.

you say it's ridiculous that i might not see the rail bias (which i find to be absurd). I find it ridiculous that you can't chalk the Juvenile Fillies up to the fact that nobody pressured the best horse in the race. In any race in America where the frontrunner is the best horse in the race, if they are not pressured...they will win. Without fail. Every time. Please find me someone who will disagree with the notion that the best horse in a race left alone on the lead will win everytime. I dare you.

It has nothing to do with where on the track she was. You're without a doubt, picking the wrong race if you want to argue about a closer not having a chance. I'd thought better of you from your apparent ability to deal with logic years ago when we were on the ESPN boards -- age gets to ya, eh? (OOPS ATTACKING AGAIN!!!!!!). I'd always thought better of your logic. I've never said agree with me, I've just required that those discussing with me actually be rational -- and using QLM as your 'rational' argument exposes you as someone without any connection to reality.

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Originally Posted by brianwspencer

ok and i will make this the third [3rd] time i have said this. QLM was compromised by the rest of the field letting the best horse in the race lope along on the front end with no pressure.

you say it's ridiculous that i might not see the rail bias (which i find to be absurd). I find it ridiculous that you can't chalk the Juvenile Fillies up to the fact that nobody pressured the best horse in the race. In any race in America where the frontrunner is the best horse in the race, if they are not pressured...they will win. Without fail. Every time. Please find me someone who will disagree with the notion that the best horse in a race left alone on the lead will win everytime. I dare you.

It has nothing to do with where on the track she was. You're without a doubt, picking the wrong race if you want to argue about a closer not having a chance. I'd thought better of you from your apparent ability to deal with logic years ago when we were on the ESPN boards -- age gets to ya, eh? (OOPS ATTACKING AGAIN!!!!!!). I'd always thought better of your logic. I've never said agree with me, I've just required that those discussing with me actually be rational -- and using QLM as your 'rational' argument exposes you as someone without any connection to reality.

Who the f is saying Anna wasn't gunna win that race? That's your fiction.I am telling you that QLM WOULD HAVE RUN WELL in that race with a fair track.Horses out wide struggled all day. Invasor was able to quickly get to the 2 path before going into the 1st turn of the race.His trainer was practically licking on the rider for doing that so well.

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Originally Posted by brianwspencer

i notice how you didn't address any of the pertinent points of one of my previous posts -- how QLM was compromised by a wide trip with the best horses setting slow fractions. Breeders' Cup or not, that's how you lose races....letting the best horse in the race lope along at her own pace.

Again (aka the third time tonight)......your point?

Notice how you didn't start this thread innocently.You started it to fight about the track that day. The reason nobody complained to the track super was because they didn't want to be accused by this guy of blaming the track for losing a race.That is what he accused people of doing in the article,and why you think people want to face a load of that crap from him is beyond me.What are they gunna do? Go to his office and tell him that horses on the outside are struggling on that track? He would laugh at them ,and do what you folks have done all day,and month on here(anybody who speaks of the track condition is a sore loser etc.,etc..) As far as QLM goes, your not familiar with this filly.If you were,you would know that she got very little pace to close on in the Oak Leaf(yet made a nice move on a heavily speed favoring Anita track to get 3rd.)They went a 47 or something,and then simply sprinted for home.She closed anyways.If Churchill was in any shape at all for the outside horses,she would have come in a good 2nd-3rd-4th.Your probably right that Anna wasn't gunna be run down from behind after those splits,but I know QLM was better than shown on that piece of crap track,and she returned to win the Moccasin on just 2 weeks rest.

[brianwspencer]

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER

Notice how you didn't start this thread innocently.You started it to fight about the track that day. The reason nobody complained to the track super was because they didn't want to be accused by this guy of blaming the track for losing a race.That is what he accused people of doing in the article,and why you think people want to face a load of that crap from him is beyond me.What are they gunna do? Go to his office and tell him that horses on the outside are struggling on that track? He would laugh at them ,and do what you folks have done all day,and month on here(anybody who speaks of the track condition is a sore loser etc.,etc..) As far as QLM goes, your not familiar with this filly.If you were,you would know that she got very little pace to close on in the Oak Leaf(yet made a nice move on a heavily speed favoring Anita track to get 3rd.)They went a 47 or something,and then simply sprinted for home.She closed anyways.If Churchill was in any shape at all for the outside horses,she would have come in a good 2nd-3rd-4th.Your probably right that Anna wasn't gunna be run down from behind after those splits,but I know QLM was better than shown on that piece of crap track,and she returned to win the Moccasin on just 2 weeks rest.

you are without a doubt, and everyone here will see it, infusing your own beliefs into my intentions. You're saying that I didn't start this thread innocently. I absolutely did. I've had enough of the bias controversy. You and others believe it exists, myself and others believe if didn't. There is no right answer, and i'm okay with that resolution (if you're not, that's your problem, not mine). I presented this thread (please reread the original post) as an interesting point of view that many on this board may not have otherwise come across. Again, you're infusing an agenda on my posts that simply isn't there. It was so that posters on this board could see what Lehr had to say for himself which I thought was interesting (and which in the original post I said was "interesting" -- notice how "interesting" here and "interesting" there are the same word PLEASE!" I am a strict believer in the fact that words speak for themselves....)

So basically I haven't said that those who thought a rail bias exists are dumb -- I've just said that I don't believe it. I can't imagine a more fair way to look at it. I'm being diplomatic, and YOU are making it confrontational. That's your issue and not mine. You love QLM. Fine, I don't. But don't pretend that with easy splits, that QLM somehow deserved to run well enough for a check. If she ran well enough for a check, she would have....(SHOCKER) gotten a check!

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Spencer, I am not wasting anymore time on you.I have given you a list of people that can see what you can't.More important than the inside bias,was the struggle many consistent horses had on the middle,and outside of that track.Most never had a chance,and you will start to get that(maybe,but I doubt it) when most of them run just fine when they run their next race.

[brianwspencer]

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER

Spencer, I am not wasting anymore time on you.I have given you a list of people that can see what you can't.More important that the inside bias,was the struggle many consistent horses had on the middle,and outside of that track.Most never had a chance,and you will start to get that(maybe,but I doubt it) when most of them run just fine when they run their next race.

that's cool. that's an agreement if i ever heard one. you've given me people, and zero examples.

I''ve given you examples, and a couple people who agree with me -- and yet you have still not answered ANY question I've posed. I can deal with that. We'll call it even out of the goodness of my heart.

that's a deal. 10-4. You love QLM and will make an excuse for her no matter what. That's cool. I respect loving a horse unconditionally, even if irrationally.

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Oh, each and everyone of us is simply stunned that Lehr's point of view is that the track was just fine.That was incredibly surprising(I am sure.)His point is that nobody complained.If they would have complained,he would have called them poor losers.We are simply stunned by the cards he is playing. Do you really expect anybody to believe your load about starting this thread?No,you don't have an agenda, but you just happened to start a thread about a guy that does.You just thought it would be interesting huh? Yep.Sure.