welfare vs wages

[Cannon Shell]

A raise in the minimum wage will almost assuredly be accompanied soon after by a raise in the price of consumer goods. Plus any raise in wages will likely be off set for workers by companies avoiding Obamacare penalties and cutting back hours to prevent them from being classified as full time workers.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

A raise in the minimum wage will almost assuredly be accompanied soon after by a raise in the price of consumer goods. Plus any raise in wages will likely be off set for workers by companies avoiding Obamacare penalties and cutting back hours to prevent them from being classified as full time workers.

the hours have been cut, for some time. i found it interesting that not just the minimum wage, but all wages have not kept up with the pace of inflation, etc. but then, we've known for some time that wages have been stagnant.

it seems to me that as the last few decades have gone by, govt has started doing more, and corporations have done less for their employees. it's not as tho mcdonalds (for example) has lower profits to go along with lower pay. same with exxon/mobil and many others. record profits for years, while we see entitlement spending grow, with workers not making enough to get by on their own.
so, which came first? as entitlements came along, starting with ss, and then medicare and medicaid, did businesses start going 'hey...' we can grow profits, the govt has a safety net for where we leave off?
this isn't something that has just suddenly happened.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Danzig

the hours have been cut, for some time. i found it interesting that not just the minimum wage, but all wages have not kept up with the pace of inflation, etc. but then, we've known for some time that wages have been stagnant.

it seems to me that as the last few decades have gone by, govt has started doing more, and corporations have done less for their employees. it's not as tho mcdonalds (for example) has lower profits to go along with lower pay. same with exxon/mobil and many others. record profits for years, while we see entitlement spending grow, with workers not making enough to get by on their own.
so, which came first? as entitlements came along, starting with ss, and then medicare and medicaid, did businesses start going 'hey...' we can grow profits, the govt has a safety net for where we leave off?
this isn't something that has just suddenly happened.

I don't see where entitlement spending and record profits are related. McDonalds as far as I know has always paid min wage because the vast majority of its jobs are unskilled. They aren't making 'record profits' because they are "underpaying" the employees. How many other fast food businesses have failed despite paying the same wages?

I don't think most reasonable people have a problem with entitlements per say. The problem arises with abuse and the ever expanding designation of who 'deserves' what.

[Danzig]

except minimum wage used to mean people were earning enough to be above the poverty line. that's no longer true. why? that's why i wonder if, as the govt started showing a willingness to pick up slack, that helps explain why businesses aren't willing to pay as much...something explains why wages haven't kept pace with the economy. lower skilled, yes. in an industry many use. at the very least, these workers should be able to make a decnt living. they used to in those jobs, and the skill level is the same.

[GenuineRisk]

Originally Posted by Danzig

except minimum wage used to mean people were earning enough to be above the poverty line. that's no longer true. why? that's why i wonder if, as the govt started showing a willingness to pick up slack, that helps explain why businesses aren't willing to pay as much...something explains why wages haven't kept pace with the economy. lower skilled, yes. in an industry many use. at the very least, these workers should be able to make a decnt living. they used to in those jobs, and the skill level is the same.

Because we've had 30+ years of economic policy that says that if the majority of productivity gains flow to the top 1 percent, that prosperity will trickle down to everyone else. Except it hasn't, and the lower and middle classes have ended up in debt in order to maintain the same standard of living they had before wages flatlined (because credit became easier to obtain during the same period. Coincidence?).

The government isn't picking up slack; aid to the poor started getting slashed in the 1980s (I just recorded a book that had a chapter discussing welfare programs and the War on Poverty and "reform" started much earlier than 1996).

As a kid, I remember the attitude about gov't jobs is that they didn't pay great, but at least you knew you'd have a comfortable (not wealthy, but comfortable) retirement. The problem is not that they have suddenly become lavish jobs; they're the same or less than what they were when I was growing up. The problem is that private sector jobs have become so poorly paid and with crappy benefits that government jobs now are better compensated. But that doesn't meant the gov't job has changed; it means the private one has become that bad.