welfare vs wages

[dellinger63]

God forbid some young middle class family who has never been on the public dole is unable to afford a tutor or even help out with college for their children because of the politicians who hired family as pension fund managers, who in turn fleeced the money.

Privatizing the sanitation department and other bloated, mismanaged, patronage filled departments will prevent that problem from ever happening again.

[dellinger63]

“When someone works for less pay than she can live on — when, for example, she goes hungry so that you can eat more cheaply and conveniently — then she has made a great sacrifice for you, she has made you a gift of some part of her abilities, her health, and her life. The 'working poor,' as they are approvingly termed, are in fact the major philanthropists of our society. They neglect their own children so that the children of others will be cared for; they live in substandard housing so that other homes will be shiny and perfect; they endure privation so that inflation will be low and stock prices high. To be a member of the working poor is to be an anonymous donor, a nameless benefactor, to everyone else.”

A testament to 'stay in school' even if it be a trade school.

BTW A poor woman who goes hungry yet produces children who undoubtedly will go hungry is compounding the poverty in America problem far more than the minimum wage paying store owner living in a shiny house is by far.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by dellinger63

A testament to 'stay in school' even if it be a trade school.

BTW A poor woman who goes hungry yet produces children who undoubtedly will go hungry is compounding the poverty in America problem far more than the minimum wage paying store owner living in a shiny house is by far.

ok...
are you willing to see the fast food industry disappear completely? are you a consumer of fast food?

[dellinger63]

Originally Posted by Danzig

ok...
are you willing to see the fast food industry disappear completely? are you a consumer of fast food?

If we don't increase minimum wage, the fast food industry will disappear?

And no I am not a consumer of fast food, or at least try not to be. Of course I consider trying to preserve good health my responsibility and not my neighbor's vis a vis government.

BTW I don't always enjoy exercising either

[Danzig]

my point is that industries are here to service people. that we shouldn't demand a service, and then demand that people be paid low wages to support our wants. we can't have it both ways, can we?
i don't buy fast food, but many do. yes, they are typically unskilled. many are also hard-working with mouths to feed. the average age of fast food employees is not 18, they aren't high schoolers. it's closer to 30.
if corps. paid living wages, we wouldn't need the govt to pick up the slack, thus lowering tax demand. poor mcdonals might only make $2 billion in profit instead of $3billion, poor guys.

people want fast food. people have to work in fast food to provide the service. as a requirement, we want them to be poor?
what about the fact that min. wage should be about $10/hour if it kept up with all the wage and living increases?

or is the answer to just keep people stupid and poor? i mean, they deserve it, because we want mcdonalds, right?

will the fast food industry disappear? of course not. should people be paid a decent wage? absolutely.

[dellinger63]

Originally Posted by Danzig

will the fast food industry disappear? of course not. .

Then why in the world did you ask me if I wanted them to disappear?

Do you tip your fast food server? Or the person at the drive-thru?

You realize individual McDonald's restaurants are owned by franchisees and not the corporation, no?

You also realize many McDonald's employees, especially in urban areas are paid more than minimum wage and sometimes even double?

Or is it someone built the road to the McDonalds so jimmy crack corn and I don't care?

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by dellinger63

Then why in the world did you ask me if I wanted them to disappear?

Do you tip your fast food server? Or the person at the drive-thru?

You realize individual McDonald's restaurants are owned by franchisees and not the corporation, no?

You also realize many McDonald's employees, especially in urban areas are paid more than minimum wage and sometimes even double?

Or is it someone built the road to the McDonalds so jimmy crack corn and I don't care?

because if we want that as an industry, we must make sure it's a viable industry, and offers viable employment.
and no, i don't tip them, i don't go to those places. but i recognize that there's a need, and the employees need to be paid. and should be paid.
if your answer is that everyone should learn a skill and get a good job...then i would ask, who will work at fast food places? those jobs are necessary. are we supposed to just sneer at those poor, dumb sods but buy the product anyway? are we to just tell ourselves that it's their fault they work there?

when i was in the navy, as the chief told us in orientation in boot camp....some jobs in the military are more glamorous than others. but who is more important? for example, the pilot of the fighter plane, or the unsung mechanic who makes sure every bolt is tight? every job in the military is important, whether the yeoman who shuffles papers, or the boiler tech, or the nuke ET. they all are needed. they aren't all 'sexy', but they are all necessary.

now, should a mcdonals employee make 100k a year? of course not. should he or she be paid a living wage? absolutely. who is more important to the hungry person going thru the drive thru? i promise, it isn't the high paid ceo or the shareholder. you want your burger, and you want it now.

and what does it matter if some are franchises instead of corporate?

oh, and i do apologize. mcd's profits were't $3 billion.
it was $5 billion. but yeah, i see your point. they'd be hardpressed to pay more, wouldn't they?


and 'artificially setting wages'? the min. wage has been around for decades, but it has lagged with the rest of growth. it should be at $10/hour or so right now. wages are stagnant all over, not just there.
define 'artificial' what does that mean?

[GenuineRisk]

Originally Posted by dellinger63

A testament to 'stay in school' even if it be a trade school.

BTW A poor woman who goes hungry yet produces children who undoubtedly will go hungry is compounding the poverty in America problem far more than the minimum wage paying store owner living in a shiny house is by far.

Uh, no. In fact, the grossly overpaid CEO is the bigger problem.

[dellinger63]

Originally Posted by GenuineRisk

Uh, no. In fact, the grossly overpaid CEO is the bigger problem.

Yea and he/she is overpaid and the CEO because they hit the lottery. Not because of their intelligence, work and talents.

Plus CEO's are exempt from income taxes and contribute nothing to either the treasury or charity.

In fact if there were no overpaid CEO's there would be no poverty. Look at North Korea.

[GenuineRisk]

Originally Posted by dellinger63

God forbid some young middle class family who has never been on the public dole is unable to afford a tutor or even help out with college for their children because of the politicians who hired family as pension fund managers, who in turn fleeced the money.

Privatizing the sanitation department and other bloated, mismanaged, patronage filled departments will prevent that problem from ever happening again.

Because private industry is never, ever, ever mismanaged and private industry never, ever gives jobs to incompetent family members.

This ridiculous meme that private industry is inherently more capable of handling public services is a zombie that just won't die. Except instead of eating brains, it eats the middle class and the poor.

[dellinger63]

Originally Posted by GenuineRisk

Because private industry is never, ever, ever mismanaged and private industry never, ever gives jobs to incompetent family members.

This ridiculous meme that private industry is inherently more capable of handling public services is a zombie that just won't die. Except instead of eating brains, it eats the middle class and the poor.

Except private companies are threatened and punished for mismanagement and incompetent family members with bankruptcy and failure. While public services simply print more money and go further into debt. Passing the bill to the next generation. When the next generation doesn't have the means to pay, Detroit happens.

Artificially setting wages as a solution to poverty is equivalent to trying to open a can with a sponge or solving a criminal problem with a midnight basketball league.