CBO: Fiscal Cliff Could Trigger a Recession

[Danzig]

http://nbcpolitics.nbcnews.com/_news...der-blame?lite

If the U.S. government ends up careening off the "fiscal cliff," Republicans in Congress stand to shoulder most of the blame, according to a new poll released Tuesday.

A majority of Americans said in a new, post-election poll that they do not expect President Barack Obama and members of Congress to reach an agreement to avoid the effects of the fiscal cliff, the combination of automatic spending cuts and tax hikes set to take effect at the beginning of the year.


Fifty-three percent of Americans said Republicans in Congress would be more to blame in that instance, according to a Pew Research Center poll conducted in the days following the election. Twenty-nine percent said that Obama would be more to blame, while 10 percent said both the president and Republicans would share blame.


i don't agree with the poll. i think something will be done to avoid the automatic changes.
obama MUST act as tho he has the position of power (i mean, he does, doesn't he??) and tell the repub-LIE-cans that he will prevent defense cuts by standing firm on the tax cuts to those earning more than 250k-they need to go away. but then, i also think the payroll tax cut needs to go away. the last thing SS needs right now is less pay going in, knowing the shape it's in.
he also needs to adamantly explain this is not a tax increase, but a return to where they were after being 'temporarily' cut.
some will say 'oh noes. don't raise taxes with this economy'. we have been involved in a war for over a decade now. it was never paid for. it must be paid for. we rushed headlong into that conflict, it's time to pay the piper.

[jms62]

Originally Posted by Danzig

http://nbcpolitics.nbcnews.com/_news...der-blame?lite

If the U.S. government ends up careening off the "fiscal cliff," Republicans in Congress stand to shoulder most of the blame, according to a new poll released Tuesday.

A majority of Americans said in a new, post-election poll that they do not expect President Barack Obama and members of Congress to reach an agreement to avoid the effects of the fiscal cliff, the combination of automatic spending cuts and tax hikes set to take effect at the beginning of the year.


Fifty-three percent of Americans said Republicans in Congress would be more to blame in that instance, according to a Pew Research Center poll conducted in the days following the election. Twenty-nine percent said that Obama would be more to blame, while 10 percent said both the president and Republicans would share blame.


i don't agree with the poll. i think something will be done to avoid the automatic changes.
obama MUST act as tho he has the position of power (i mean, he does, doesn't he??) and tell the repub-LIE-cans that he will prevent defense cuts by standing firm on the tax cuts to those earning more than 250k-they need to go away. but then, i also think the payroll tax cut needs to go away. the last thing SS needs right now is less pay going in, knowing the shape it's in.
he also needs to adamantly explain this is not a tax increase, but a return to where they were after being 'temporarily' cut.
some will say 'oh noes. don't raise taxes with this economy'. we have been involved in a war for over a decade now. it was never paid for. it must be paid for. we rushed headlong into that conflict, it's time to pay the piper.

If we had 10% war tax and instituted the draft would we have multiple decade long wars or would we get involved only when absolutely necessary? The average American is oblivious to the carnage of these wars actual and financial.

[Danzig]

good questions jms, especially the draft question.

altho we have no need for a draft because there are enough volunteers, i'm sure a wartime draft would make a lot of people sit up and take notice. because right now, 'they' are fighting the war-they being our servicemen and -women. it doesn't bring the fight home to everyone, just the families of those serving.

but, i bet you if you said 'hey, we need to invade, and we need to raise taxes to pay for it', you'd get the response you're looking for. that way it would affect everyone, and where many don't want to be affected.

[jms62]

Originally Posted by Danzig

good questions jms, especially the draft question.

altho we have no need for a draft because there are enough volunteers, i'm sure a wartime draft would make a lot of people sit up and take notice. because right now, 'they' are fighting the war-they being our servicemen and -women. it doesn't bring the fight home to everyone, just the families of those serving.

but, i bet you if you said 'hey, we need to invade, and we need to raise taxes to pay for it', you'd get the response you're looking for. that way it would affect everyone, and where many don't want to be affected.

http://www.tnr.com/blog/the-plank/th...tax-precedent#

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by jms62

http://www.tnr.com/blog/the-plank/th...tax-precedent#

great idea, hasn't got a shot in hell of happening.
but thanks for the link, i'm going to read that article with the headline on rich staying with obama-except for bankers. i'm sure that had nothing to do with romney wanting to remove all those new regulations.

[Rudeboyelvis]

Originally Posted by jms62

If we had 10% war tax and instituted the draft would we have multiple decade long wars or would we get involved only when absolutely necessary? The average American is oblivious to the carnage of these wars actual and financial.

When I moved to Tampa 8 and a half years ago, my wife was a VA nurse who was able to transfer to the James a Haley VA hospital in town.

That hospital is now 2 and a half times the size it was then, and the spinal cord wing alone is practically the size of the original hospital.

The costs and suffering will last decades longer than any end to these wars, predetermined or otherwise, will preclude.

It'd be nice if the media did their job, but we all know why they don't.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Rudeboyelvis

When I moved to Tampa 8 and a half years ago, my wife was a VA nurse who was able to transfer to the James a Haley VA hospital in town.

That hospital is now 2 and a half times the size it was then, and the spinal cord wing alone is practically the size of the original hospital.

The costs and suffering will last decades longer than any end to these wars, predetermined or otherwise, will preclude.

It'd be nice if the media did their job, but we all know why they don't.

i saw a bit on a show the other evening, discussing how broken vets aren't the only ones who suffer. it showed the wives and families of some of these vets. one lady is married to a guy who suffered head trauma from an IED. she said he's 'not the man she married'. he has a different personality than he had before, he has a service dog, he's disabled, he tends to lose his temper very, very easily. so she's trying to take care of him, and her daughter, and keep their family as normal as possible.
another woman has a husband who tried to commit suicide because of the lasting effects from several tours in iraq and afganistan. she has tried to commit suicide twice herself.
you can see the physical results of some of the wounds-but the emotional wounds, to the vet as well as his/her family, are not so easily seen. but they're there.