One more reason why the Phipps family is good for racing

[Danzig]

i suppose it's so difficult to find any completely free of drugs, he's doing the best he can with what he has to work with.
as for unraced, there are many reasons horses don't race. conformation issues, injuries, illness, or they're just plain too slow.
i remember reading a write up on a good broodmare, she dropped some nice runners, but her poor conformation was felt to be too much of a detriment to racing. a gamble as far as breeding her, but her foals all did fine.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Danzig188

i suppose it's so difficult to find any completely free of drugs, he's doing the best he can with what he has to work with.
as for unraced, there are many reasons horses don't race. conformation issues, injuries, illness, or they're just plain too slow.
i remember reading a write up on a good broodmare, she dropped some nice runners, but her poor conformation was felt to be too much of a detriment to racing. a gamble as far as breeding her, but her foals all did fine.

I just find the argument that its bad for the breed for the stallion to be "artificially enhanced" while the mare, who is 1/2 of the equation, can be a complete slowpoke silly.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

I just find the argument that its bad for the breed for the stallion to be "artificially enhanced" while the mare, who is 1/2 of the equation, can be a complete slowpoke silly.

but if a mare doesnt' have to succeed on the track before going to the shed, you're getting an all natural broodmare.
but an enhanced stud...well, how fast would he have been without help? would he have bled? was he on steroids? studs have to prove themselves on the track pretty much. otherwise, you have to support him all on your own, as no one will have heard of him. so they have to go out on the track and give it all they've got--or all the vet has!

[paisjpq]

Originally Posted by Danzig188

but if a mare doesnt' have to succeed on the track before going to the shed, you're getting an all natural broodmare.
but an enhanced stud...well, how fast would he have been without help? would he have bled? was he on steroids? studs have to prove themselves on the track pretty much. otherwise, you have to support him all on your own, as no one will have heard of him. so they have to go out on the track and give it all they've got--or all the vet has!

plus a mare won't have 100+ foals per year...if she su cks she'll weed herself out of the herd after a couple of foals...if the stud su cks well then there are that many more surpluss foals...
And IMHO I think the fact that a lot of super running mares can't come close to reproducing themselves shows you which mares had some extra vet help.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by paisjpq

plus a mare won't have 100+ foals per year...if she su cks she'll weed herself out of the herd after a couple of foals...if the stud su cks well then there are that many more surpluss foals...
And IMHO I think the fact that a lot of super running mares can't come close to reproducing themselves shows you which mares had some extra vet help.

I think that it would be presumptious to say that a mare who was a top class runner that was not a good producer had extra vet help. Same with stallions. Look at a horse like Lemon Drop Kid. Top class horse who seemingly was not trained by a "move up" trainer but seems hard pressed to replicate himself as a stallion. Was he enhanced as a runner? I think not. He seems to be passing on traits from his sire, Kingmambo, namely turfy types. Same with Skip Away. It has nothing to do with drugs it is genetics which are always much clearer 30 years down the road in hindsight.

[paisjpq]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

I think that it would be presumptious to say that a mare who was a top class runner that was not a good producer had extra vet help. Same with stallions. Look at a horse like Lemon Drop Kid. Top class horse who seemingly was not trained by a "move up" trainer but seems hard pressed to replicate himself as a stallion. Was he enhanced as a runner? I think not. He seems to be passing on traits from his sire, Kingmambo, namely turfy types. Same with Skip Away. It has nothing to do with drugs it is genetics which are always much clearer 30 years down the road in hindsight.

perhaps i should have said might have had help...and I think in some cases it is true...but as i said it's just my opinion. And I think Skip Away's opportunity as a stallion has suffered from his lack of fashionable pedigree.
genetics are obviously the determining factor and for to understand how genes express themselves it takes generations of a population...however it is that much harder to make a determination when runners are enhanced.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by paisjpq

plus a mare won't have 100+ foals per year.

I would hardly think the 50 or so mares that a bad ass stallion will produce a year will negatively affect a horse population of roughly 125,000?

[paisjpq]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

I would hardly think the 50 or so mares that a bad ass stallion will produce a year will negatively affect a horse population of roughly 125,000?

my point was simply that a single mare will have far less impact overall than a stud can potentially.

[Rileyoriley]

Devil His Due raced 40 times drug free and I think More Than Ready is turning out to be a decent sire. Personally I like the Halo line but I know it isn't real popular with breeders. Deb