Ted Haggard

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Downthestretch55

Rupert,
Come on now!
Do you post things that fit your agenda?
For your information...I AM a Christian. I worship the Prince of Peace.
Your "trash talk" is getting old.
I am also NOT a democrat. Ask Timm. I'm independent.
Enough about me.
I don't need to ask you to define yourself. You've already proven it.

dts, just for my sake...what is it that you find makes you an independant, and not a democrat? just out of curiosity.

[brianwspencer]

i still don't get the big uproar. what's the big deal?

it's just a little crystal meth and gay sex.

that's like a regular saturday night for most of my friends.

[Downthestretch55]

Originally Posted by Danzig188

dts, just for my sake...what is it that you find makes you an independant, and not a democrat? just out of curiosity.

Oh boy! Yet another request to define myself! GEESH!!
I'll tell you.
I am registerered as an Independent.
There are views that I agree with (better sit down now) with the Conservative Party, like fiscal responsibility and balanced budgets.
There are views that I agree with that come from the Greens, like signing the Kyoto Agreement and marine mammal protection.
There are views that I also hold that come from the Democrats, like adjusting the minimum wage, health care, and others.
There are even a few views that I agree with the Republicans about, such as trade with Canada, and encouraging small business.
There are views that the Libertarians hold that I also agree with, especially regarding the rights of the individual.
I like to make up my own mind, so I don't buy a "total" platform from any political party.
I hope that answers your question.

Now, since you felt free to ask me...
What party are you registered with, and why?
Do you believe that all citizens should be allowed to make their own choices and party affiliations?
Does a "moral" or "religious" belief that you might hold, be used to coerce others to hold the same, despite Constitutional guarantees against same?

I'll have more questions later, but these are enough for now.
Thanks for asking.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Downthestretch55

Oh boy! Yet another request to define myself! GEESH!!
I'll tell you.
I am registerered as an Independent.
There are views that I agree with (better sit down now) with the Conservative Party, like fiscal responsibility and balanced budgets.
There are views that I agree with that come from the Greens, like signing the Kyoto Agreement and marine mammal protection.
There are views that I also hold that come from the Democrats, like adjusting the minimum wage, health care, and others.
There are even a few views that I agree with the Republicans about, such as trade with Canada, and encouraging small business.
There are views that the Libertarians hold that I also agree with, especially regarding the rights of the individual.
I like to make up my own mind, so I don't buy a "total" platform from any political party.
I hope that answers your question.

Now, since you felt free to ask me...
What party are you registered with, and why?
Do you believe that all citizens should be allowed to make their own choices and party affiliations?
Does a "moral" or "religious" belief that you might hold, be used to coerce others to hold the same, despite Constitutional guarantees against same?

I'll have more questions later, but these are enough for now.
Thanks for asking.

i was asking since i never have seen you disagree with a dem, altho you disagree with much that the republicans do...thanks for answering.
i am registered with no party, as you don't have to register (thankfully) in arkansas. why? i don't agree completely with any one party,and think all have something to offer, altho most seem in my view to have more bad going for them than good.
as for making a choice and a party affiliation....of course everyone should be free to do so, altho i wish there was a viable third party to compete with the either/or that we suffer with now.
i got hammered by somer in the past for saying i hold more with the 'legal' than the 'moral' POV as one persons moral view is not the same as another. i even said i felt compelled to start a party known as the 'constitutionalist' party...coach was kind enough to offer to join. i'm very much an 'everyone needs to mind their own business' type--my views on 'gay' marriage would bring down repents wrath in a new york minute. of course my views on gun rights would invite an immediate response from scuds.

[Cajungator26]

Originally Posted by Danzig188

i was asking since i never have seen you disagree with a dem, altho you disagree with much that the republicans do...thanks for answering.
i am registered with no party, as you don't have to register (thankfully) in arkansas. why? i don't agree completely with any one party,and think all have something to offer, altho most seem in my view to have more bad going for them than good.
as for making a choice and a party affiliation....of course everyone should be free to do so, altho i wish there was a viable third party to compete with the either/or that we suffer with now.
i got hammered by somer in the past for saying i hold more with the 'legal' than the 'moral' POV as one persons moral view is not the same as another. i even said i felt compelled to start a party known as the 'constitutionalist' party...coach was kind enough to offer to join. i'm very much an 'everyone needs to mind their own business' type--my views on 'gay' marriage would bring down repents wrath in a new york minute. of course my views on gun rights would invite an immediate response from scuds.

Deb, I agree with you. I wish there were a viable 3rd party that could actually compete...

I voted Republican because I swing more to the conservative side, and I realize that the line between republicans and democrats is getting to be a gray area, but really, what other choices do I have? I want to vote, but it seems that you're damned if you do and damned if you don't. It's frustrating...

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Cajungator26

Deb, I agree with you. I wish there were a viable 3rd party that could actually compete...

I voted Republican because I swing more to the conservative side, and I realize that the line between republicans and democrats is getting to be a gray area, but really, what other choices do I have? I want to vote, but it seems that you're damned if you do and damned if you don't. It's frustrating...

i think what ticks me off more than anything regarding green party, libertarians and the like...lack of debate! it really irritates me that the 'real' candidates absolutely refuse to debate their opponents. it's ridiculous. as tho any willingness to debate would bestow legitimacy to another party and would lose them some votes. well, actually it would! lol i really think that those who provide the debates, who set them up and moderate them, should consider allowing the other opponents to have a voice as well.

[Downthestretch55]

Originally Posted by Danzig188

i think what ticks me off more than anything regarding green party, libertarians and the like...lack of debate! it really irritates me that the 'real' candidates absolutely refuse to debate their opponents. it's ridiculous. as tho any willingness to debate would bestow legitimacy to another party and would lose them some votes. well, actually it would! lol i really think that those who provide the debates, who set them up and moderate them, should consider allowing the other opponents to have a voice as well.

Danzig,
I agree with your statement. Unfortunately, the greens and Libertarians aren't invited to the "big show" debates.

[Downthestretch55]

Originally Posted by Danzig188

i was asking since i never have seen you disagree with a dem, altho you disagree with much that the republicans do...thanks for answering.
i am registered with no party, as you don't have to register (thankfully) in arkansas. why? i don't agree completely with any one party,and think all have something to offer, altho most seem in my view to have more bad going for them than good.
as for making a choice and a party affiliation....of course everyone should be free to do so, altho i wish there was a viable third party to compete with the either/or that we suffer with now.
i got hammered by somer in the past for saying i hold more with the 'legal' than the 'moral' POV as one persons moral view is not the same as another. i even said i felt compelled to start a party known as the 'constitutionalist' party...coach was kind enough to offer to join. i'm very much an 'everyone needs to mind their own business' type--my views on 'gay' marriage would bring down repents wrath in a new york minute. of course my views on gun rights would invite an immediate response from scuds.

Thanks for your answer.
I also don't agree with any one party.
Your view on "gay marriage" might be the same as mine. Government should have no say on the one choses to love, and should not provide tax advantages for such.
I'm also pretty clear on the words in the 2nd Amendment. As a hunter and gun collector, there is no good reason for the government to involve itself in my interests, unless there is proof that criminal activity has taken place with my firearms, which there hasn't.
"Moral" views are for the individual to determine for him/her self. No government has the authority to impose them on its citizens.
It is my belief that it is the citizen's responsiblity to speak against the policies of any government that does so.
Peace.

[timmgirvan]

IF you don't stand for SOME morality...then it will just become chaos

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by timmgirvan

IF you don't stand for SOME morality...then it will just become chaos

no timm...laws are there to prevent chaos. obviously most laws are based on moral values--prostitution for example. but my idea of what is morally right or wrong won't jibe with yours, or many others.
is playboy porn? i don't think it is...but ask others. some will think so, while others would agree with me that it isn't. gambling is a moral issue. as is drinking. moral tells you not to drink, legal says don't drink unless over 21, and don't drive. just because you might have a drink, that doesn't lead to chaos.

[timmgirvan]

Originally Posted by Danzig188

no timm...laws are there to prevent chaos. obviously most laws are based on moral values--prostitution for example. but my idea of what is morally right or wrong won't jibe with yours, or many others.
is playboy porn? i don't think it is...but ask others. some will think so, while others would agree with me that it isn't. gambling is a moral issue. as is drinking. moral tells you not to drink, legal says don't drink unless over 21, and don't drive. just because you might have a drink, that doesn't lead to chaos.

Well,Ziggie maybe you can explain our present state of chaos...where men/women basically hook up with anything that moves,gangs, indiscriminate "recreational" drug use, medical companies putting out drugs that not only dont work,but kill. Not to mention the escalating violence on children,by adults and their peers alike. And then there's the people that deface works of art and any new car they can't afford,car-jackings....the whole "I want this and I'm gonna have it no matter what" I could go on...

[Downthestretch55]

Originally Posted by timmgirvan

IF you don't stand for SOME morality...then it will just become chaos

Timm,
The trap is when you define "morality" for others.
Is it just as wrong to kill inoccent (co-lateral damage) children with a cruise misile in Baghdad as Amish children in an Amish school.
To me, what's wrong is wrong.
I'll take that stand.
I just won't be launching any "air strikes" to make that point.

[timmgirvan]

Originally Posted by Downthestretch55

Timm,
The trap is when you define "morality" for others.
Is it just as wrong to kill inoccent (co-lateral damage) children with a cruise misile in Baghdad as Amish children in an Amish school.
To me, what's wrong is wrong.
I'll take that stand.
I just won't be launching any "air strikes" to make that point.

you know exactly what I'm talking about,but you wish to politicize the problem. This country was founded with societal morals and they've slid a long way. I dont call the new morality where everything goes is morality at all...it's chaos.

[Danzig]

my take on marriage is if you get married in a church, than obviously it's between you, your partner, your pastor, and god...
BUT, constitutionally, ALL are created equal. as such all should be treated as equals...not treated like the creatures in 'animal farm', where all are equal--but some are more equal than others!! so 'civil unions' should apply to all adults. ALL of them. matter of fact, civil recognition of a religious ceremony---well, let's just say if you really believe in separation of church and state, where does that leave marriage--and explains why you must buy a marriage license, that covers the civil part of it i suppose.

[Downthestretch55]

Originally Posted by Danzig188

my take on marriage is if you get married in a church, than obviously it's between you, your partner, your pastor, and god...
BUT, constitutionally, ALL are created equal. as such all should be treated as equals...not treated like the creatures in 'animal farm', where all are equal--but some are more equal than others!! so 'civil unions' should apply to all adults. ALL of them. matter of fact, civil recognition of a religious ceremony---well, let's just say if you really believe in separation of church and state, where does that leave marriage--and explains why you must buy a marriage license, that covers the civil part of it i suppose.

Here in NY, marriages don't have to happen in a church. A Justice of the Peace can unite a "couple"...man and woman.
There are some things I really don't understand that the government decides...like why do I have to buy a license for my dog, but not my cat?
Does the government really make money off the dog owners but provide special favor to cat owners?
And why is there sales tax on potato chips but not potatoes? (here in NY)
Crazy stuff!