tha lava man thread....

#1 11-08-2006, 09:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

Got it. Excuses for Lava Man are perfectly acceptable, but none for Bernardini.

Because it's a completely different element. You might as well call California racing something other than "thoroughbred," because for years, Cali form has been as exclusive as Polytrack form is today. Some horses love it out there, and those who do can't run anywhere else (i.e. Lava Man), and some horses hate it out there.

I didn't make any excuses for anyone. I thought Bernardini ran his eyeballs out and did a damn good job doing it. I wasn't a fan at all before the BC, but I am now. As for Lava Man, I don't think he has any excuses whatsoever. Pointing out he was supposedly training great at Keeneland and not at Churchill wasn't any kind of commentary about shipping either. There's no guarantee he'd have raced well at Keeneland at all. I was just told by someone I trust that he didn't look so hot at Churchill compared to how he looked at Keeneland.

And why is California racing something other than Thoroughbred? Personally I think that's a ridiculous statement. Form out here isn't exclusive whatsoever. All kinds of our horses ship out East and win. All kinds! And over the dirt and now polytrack, in places like Keeneland. Not so many come out here and win, however. Including a reigning Horse of the Year, may he rest in peace.

ateamstupid · #2 11-08-2006, 09:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by redransom

I didn't make any excuses for anyone. I thought Bernardini ran his eyeballs out and did a damn good job doing it. I wasn't a fan at all before the BC, but I am now. As for Lava Man, I don't think he has any excuses whatsoever. Pointing out he was supposedly training great at Keeneland and not at Churchill wasn't any kind of commentary about shipping either. There's no guarantee he'd have raced well at Keeneland at all. I was just told by someone I trust that he didn't look so hot at Churchill compared to how he looked at Keeneland.

And why is California racing something other than Thoroughbred? Personally I think that's a ridiculous statement. Form out here isn't exclusive whatsoever. All kinds of our horses ship out East and win. All kinds! And over the dirt and now polytrack, in places like Keeneland. Not so many come out here and win, however. Including a reigning Horse of the Year, may he rest in peace.

I think the amount of California horses who ship East and win is about the same as the amount who ship out there and win, and neither of those amounts are very high.

Besides Too Much Bling, I can't think of many California DIRT horses who shipped out here and consistently did well this past year.

#3 11-08-2006, 09:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

I think the amount of California horses who ship East and win is about the same as the amount who ship out there and win, and neither of those amounts are very high.

Besides Too Much Bling, I can't think of many California DIRT horses who shipped out here and consistently did well this past year.

Off the top of my head... Pu$$ycat Doll, Midnite Lute, Behaving Badly (second, but OH so close), Great Hunter, and the list goes on... don't even get me started on 2005!

Can't think of one horse who came here and won, however.

ateamstupid · #4 11-08-2006, 09:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by redransom

Off the top of my head... Pu$$ycat Doll, Midnite Lute, Behaving Badly (second, but OH so close), Great Hunter, and the list goes on... don't even get me started on 2005!

Can't think of one horse who came here and won, however.

I said CONSISTENTLY did well, not won one slow race on Polyturf.

And you're missing my point. It's not a East Coast ships West vs. West Coast ships East thing. My point is that it's a completely different type of racing out West.

#5 11-08-2006, 09:45 PM

Wait, how do you figure I'm not getting your point? Of course there's a different kind of racing out here just as there's a different kind of racing in, say, Florida or Louisiana. What I'm not getting is why you're taking issue with the Easterners shipping West vs. the Westerners shipping East.

It's a documented fact that, at least for the last decade and perhaps longer, far more horses from California have shipped and won than vice versa. If the racing is as superior, as I think you're alluding to, then you'd think more horses would be coming out here to steal our million-dollar races. It just doesn't happen.

But back to Lava Man... he obviously changes the minute his toes step in the airplane because he's shipped all over So Cal. Why? I have no idea. I'm sure if I knew I'd be Doug O'Neill's new best friend!

ateamstupid · #6 11-08-2006, 09:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by redransom

Wait, how do you figure I'm not getting your point? Of course there's a different kind of racing out here just as there's a different kind of racing in, say, Florida or Louisiana. What I'm not getting is why you're taking issue with the Easterners shipping West vs. the Westerners shipping East.

It's a documented fact that, at least for the last decade and perhaps longer, far more horses from California have shipped and won than vice versa. If the racing is as superior, as I think you're alluding to, then you'd think more horses would be coming out here to steal our million-dollar races. It just doesn't happen.

But back to Lava Man... he obviously changes the minute his toes step in the airplane because he's shipped all over So Cal. Why? I have no idea. I'm sure if I knew I'd be Doug O'Neill's new best friend!

Well, I'm not all over the past decade, but just in the last few years? The reason there have been far more West Coast shippers winning out here? Because nobody here ships out there! Why do you think that is? The money's just as good.. It's gotta be that it takes a special kind of horse to run on those speedways like they run on the dirt out here.

And you aren't getting my point, because my point is that shipping from NY to KY or KY to NY or NY to FL or FL to KY, etc. is much easier than shipping from NY to CA because there are two types of racing. NY, KY, FL (I would've said IL before all those breakdowns), etc. and CA.

If you think I'm wrong, then you come up with a better reason why East Coast owners and trainers largely refuse to go out West.

#7 11-08-2006, 10:07 PM

They don't come out here because they get their butts kicked virtually every time...

Two names off the top of my head? Happy Ticket and Perfect Drift. Do you really want me to continue?

That's why I'm a huge Wait a While fan. She not only did it, she did it twice. Oh and Todd Pletcher, too. When he ships 'em, they're ready to run! And he's had some success aside from Wait a While. Remember Texas Glitter? Of course they're both turfers, but still...

I want to know what the difference is between shipping from CA to NY and shipping from NY to CA? Answer: nothing. California horses seem to do it all the time while when NY horses dare do it, which is rarely because they know better, they typically get their a$$es kicked.

It's a fact! Hell, more foreign horses ship here and win than NY (and, possibly, KY) horses!

LARHAGE · #8 11-09-2006, 03:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

I said CONSISTENTLY did well, not won one slow race on Polyturf.

And you're missing my point. It's not a East Coast ships West vs. West Coast ships East thing. My point is that it's a completely different type of racing out West.

Add Bob and John, Pico Central, Borrego, Lost in The Fog.