Where's the Scat Daddy Thread?

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

I think you are determined to not admit you were wrong IN ANY WAY. What you really should do is temper your specific enthusiam to a realistic level. Bernardini is a fine horse, most likely one of the best hundred or so in the time period you mention. But, his performances on the racetrack completely belie your opinion of him. Saying something is so does not make it so. A horse has only his performances to speak for him.

I have always thought Bernardini was a nice horse. I also thought highly of Invasor and was far from surprised at Saturday's result. They were two evenly matched horses who would probably split decisions fairly evenly if they met a number of times. But, make no mistake, neither has done anything on the track to place them in any kind of elite group.

Horses who were absolutely better? Off the top of my head....Ghostzapper, Holy Bull, Skip Away, Formal Gold, Candy Ride, Tiznow, Easy Goer, Sunday Silence, probably Cigar, AP Indy, Dubai Millenium. But the list of comparable horses is endless...Point Given, Medaglia D'Oro, maybe even Saint Liam, Smarty Jones, Silver Charm, Touch Gold, Lido Palace, Street Cry, Left Bank, Congaree, Will's Way...I'm sure you get the drift.

You feel some sort of connection to Bernardini, which is great, but that doesn't alter his resume. What he is/was is another in a long line of nice horses who has a reasonable resume of success.

Invasor accomplished far more "on the track" than Ghostzapper and St Liam. If you are looking at track results only (no sheets etc etc) Then Invasor has been better than those two I mentioned.

[ateamstupid]

Originally Posted by eurobounce

Invasor accomplished far more "on the track" than Ghostzapper and St Liam. If you are looking at track results only (no sheets etc etc) Then Invasor has been better than those two I mentioned.

You honestly believe this? Wow..

Originally Posted by Cajungator26

I don't think that Bernardini and Ghostzapper should even be compared since it's unfair to both... what was done by Bernie as a 3 year old definitely topped out GZ's 3 year old season, and what was done as a 4 year old for GZ defnitely topped out Bernie's 4 year old season, SINCE HE DIDN'T HAVE ONE! LMAO...

BINGO, Cajun..

Everybody dance now!

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

I can't believe I just read this. I really can't. There can't be people out there who honestly believe this. It's impossible.



BINGO, Cajun..

How can you think differently. Lets recap here. Now we are only comparing on the track. We arent comparing times, sheet numbers, etc etc.

Ghostzapper
4 Grade I wins (Classic, Vosburgh, Woodward, Metropolitan) He has 9 wins from 11 starts for earnings of $3.4mm. Horse of the year in 2004

Invasor
4 Grade I wins ( Classic, Whitney, Suburban, Pimlico Special) To me these are more prestigous races than what Zapper won. Also, Invasor has 9 wins from 10 starts with earnings of $3.6mm.

Invasor will be crowned HOY of the year for the 2nd time.

So Invasor has won more money and has a better win % and has won more prestigious Grade I races. In addition, he is still racing. Now looking at these two it is pretty even. But, the edge goes to Invasor based "on the track."

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by eurobounce

How can you think differently. Lets recap here. Now we are only comparing on the track. We arent comparing times, sheet numbers, etc etc.

Ghostzapper
4 Grade I wins (Classic, Vosburgh, Woodward, Metropolitan) He has 9 wins from 11 starts for earnings of $3.4mm. Horse of the year in 2004

Invasor
4 Grade I wins ( Classic, Whitney, Suburban, Pimlico Special) To me these are more prestigous races than what Zapper won. Also, Invasor has 9 wins from 10 starts with earnings of $3.6mm.

Invasor will be crowned HOY of the year for the 2nd time.

So Invasor has won more money and has a better win % and has won more prestigious Grade I races. In addition, he is still racing. Now looking at these two it is pretty even. But, the edge goes to Invasor based "on the track."

I'm tired but I have to disagree with this. I like Invasor, I really do, but your comparisons are not terrific. First, saying Invasor won more prestigious races is sketchy at best. They both won the Classic, OK, the Whitney and Woodward are comparable names, the Met is bigger than the Suburban and the Vosburgh is bigger than the Pimlico Special. Also, the varying distances of these Grade 1s is a major feather in Ghostzapper's cap. Now, let's compare the competition. Woodward-Whitney. Ghostzapper defeated the following year's HOY and Classic winner Saint Liam by a head after being carried out more than ten paths in the stretch with the rest of the field WAY back. Invasor ran a terrific race in the Whitney, not getting a perfect trip ( stumbling early and moving too soon into a hot pace ) and held off Sun King by a head. Now, I love Sun King, I dream of him, he is my personal God of racing, but he aint no Saint Liam....and it pains me deeply to say that, write that and think that. Plus, it was a few lengths back to West Virginia and some Mark Hennig bum that routinely runs last in every stake race he is misplaced in.

I'm tired...can I go to bed and finish this tomorrow....or do you just want to admit you were a little hasty in this one?

By the way, Ghostzapper's speed figures were almost universally superior.

I like Invasor a lot...I really do. Ghostzapper would have chuckled at him....if he ever even noticed him.

By the way, have you recently watched a replay of Ghostzapper's Vosburgh? If not, please do, as I promise you that it is most enjoyable. Honestly, it may be one of the five most scintilating performances of any of our lifetimes. It was a thing of beauty. He aint even in the picture when the field turns for home...and he wins by almost seven.

Now I'm getting weepy.

I am not comparing times or competition--just simply what they did on the track. The numbers do not lie. A better win % and more money earned and he is still racing. That is all there is to it. Do I think Zapper would beat Invasor--HECK YES. But if you are only comparing on the track, then Invasor has done more.

[ateamstupid]

Originally Posted by eurobounce

I am not comparing times or competition--just simply what they did on the track. The numbers do not lie. A better win % and more money earned and he is still racing. That is all there is to it. Do I think Zapper would beat Invasor--HECK YES. But if you are only comparing on the track, then Invasor has done more.

Yeah, earnings and win %. Those are the only factors that determine who's accomplished more. You gotta be kidding.

Did Invasor ever win a G1 sprint against elders closing from 12 lengths back? Did he win the most prestigious mile race in the country on a blistering pace? Did he wire an insanely fast Classic field?

You're being very narrow in your scope on accomplishments. In terms of graded races won, yes, Invasor has accomplished as much as Ghostzapper. But that's not all that goes into "accomplishments on the track." Ghostzapper won G1 races from 6 1/2 furlongs to 10 furlongs, both closing from the clouds and wire-to-wire. He beat a better Classic field than Invasor did and in general, faced much faster horses.

And Saint Liam, as much as I wasn't a fan, won pretty much every important dirt race in America, and ran narrow seconds in many others. To say Invasor has accomplished "far more" than either Ghostzapper or Saint Liam is nuts.

[alysheba4]

all i needed from that pack mule scat diddy was 3rd.......for a nice tri.

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

Yeah, earnings and win %. Those are the only factors that determine who's accomplished more. You gotta be kidding.

Did Invasor ever win a G1 sprint against elders closing from 12 lengths back? Did he win the most prestigious mile race in the country on a blistering pace? Did he wire an insanely fast Classic field?

You're being very narrow in your scope on accomplishments. In terms of graded races won, yes, Invasor has accomplished as much as Ghostzapper. But that's not all that goes into "accomplishments on the track." Ghostzapper won G1 races from 6 1/2 furlongs to 10 furlongs, both closing from the clouds and wire-to-wire. He beat a better Classic field than Invasor did and in general, faced much faster horses.

And Saint Liam, as much as I wasn't a fan, won pretty much every important dirt race in America, and ran narrow seconds in many others. To say Invasor has accomplished "far more" than either Ghostzapper or Saint Liam is nuts.

Who cares what distances the races were or how the won the races and again who cares about the competition. In this game, wins and money is all that matter. Invasor has a better win % and more money. That is all he needs.