Derby training and workout reports

[RockHardTen1985]

Originally Posted by Calzone Lord

Looking at training reports from those who've done work reports on these horses before prep races ... here are some of the positive and negative reports.

Positives: I could only find two horses who has been getting better reports coming into this race than in the Preps.


Take Charge Indy - final work before the Florida Derby:

"Finish: 1:01.57s - worked on the main shortly after Union Rags hit the track and there was no comparison, Indy didn't work bad just didn't have the stride or jump that Rags had. Finished in 25.3"


From Mike Welch

"has trained far better coming out of his Florida Derby victory than going in, his easy April 19 drill at Palm Meadows was far superior than his similarly timed final Florida Derby prep three weeks earlier."


Gemologist: His final workout before his 3yo return race:

"Finish: 49.77s - GEMOLOGIST outside of DISPOSABLEPLEASURE this morning for Todd. Worked in 49.,1 to the wire and out in 103.4. Gemo was second best while pleasure was going the easier of the two inside."


His comments coming into the Derby:

"looked incredible physically. He has grown and added weight and size. He looks like the real deal. He hs a nasty habit to idle when racing and in Derby it could hurt him. Pletcher has him looking incredible."



Negatives:

Dullahan - final work before Blue Grass:

"Finish: 57.4s - Worked lights out and fast over his favorite track, solidifying his love affair with synthetic tracks. Went in 23, 34.2 and 57.2. Finished out in 111 flat. You know he loves it here. What a surprise?"


Training reports coming into Derby:

"He doesn't drop his head on the dirt as he does on the poly. He seems to rely on his hind end tucked under him on dirt. He finished in 25.1 and galloped out in 115.3. Looked average. Did not inspire."



Creative Cause:

Final work before wearing down Bodemeister in the San Felipe:

"Finish: 46.4s - 23.20, 46.40 – Harrington has his big gray on his toes after this blowout. Best drill he has turned in this year."


Final work before 2nd as beaten Santa Anita Derby favorite:

"Again without the blinkers. Went real easy – 24.20, 48.40 – Harrington not as urgent in final prep this time."


Did not recieve a strong report for his final Derby work like he did before his performance in the San Felipe and according to Mike Welsch "has not had the best week of the Derby contenders after coming up with a minor foot issue on the flight east. He does not seem real comfortable at a jog and like several others in this field has shown a tendency to get hot in the morning."




Two other intersting ones:


I'll Have Another's final work going into his Santa Anita Derby win was judged to be underwhelming:

"Finish: 1:26s - 24.60, 48.00, 1:00.40 for the final five furlongs. Finished up under pushing pressure. Underwhelming in final prep. Taken off the bit on purpose?"


His Derby works haven't been judged to be much better, however.



* Liason was judged to easily outwork Blueskiesnrainbows before the Santa Anita Derby ... the latter almost won the race and Liason never factored:

"Finish: 1:10.4s - Was much the best here over barnmate BLUESKIESNRAINBOWS. Stalked here for most of the drill and made a move down the stretch to catch the workmate and win the drill by lengths. Final furlong in 11.3 in hand."

We need TCI for decent pool 1 score. Astute bet at over 40-1

[VOL JACK]

Hard Spun was training horrible according to the experts going into the Derby and Breeders Cup Classic. He ran 2nd in both races.

Nehro was a complete toss according to Welsch and Gary Young last year. (to be fair they both loved Animal Kingdom)

Now this year, ,El Padrino is the toss off his works.
The thing is, El Padrino has never been a good work horse.
Yeah, I'd liked to see more than a 53 half the week of the Derby but, at 25-30:1 I'll take my chances.

[PatCummings]

I agree the focus on works can be a bit overrated, but everyone is using every possible angle to get a better understanding...so I take them all with just some degree of input to my full opinion.

I didn't need anyone to tell me that when an Asmussen horse worked a 5F bullet, then a well-regarded (by the clockers I've talked to) 6F work...and he deserves serious consideration.

I've heard nothing bad about Daddy Nose Best, and in fact, the clockers who saw him in his works at CD before the more well-known clockers came into town...his 5F and 6F works at CD were absolutely wonderful.

I liked the horse coming in, and their educated opinions have affirmed it...but all I needed to see was a rare Asmussen bullet followed by a solid maintenance drill...the 4F in 49.2 was overwhelmingly easy, and was much better than Sabercat's work...

The expected pace, Gomez, draw, works, breeding, appearance, third-up, six weeks, etc...I'm game on him.

[tector]

Originally Posted by PatCummings

I agree the focus on works can be a bit overrated, but everyone is using every possible angle to get a better understanding...so I take them all with just some degree of input to my full opinion.

I didn't need anyone to tell me that when an Asmussen horse worked a 5F bullet, then a well-regarded (by the clockers I've talked to) 6F work...and he deserves serious consideration.

I've heard nothing bad about Daddy Nose Best, and in fact, the clockers who saw him in his works at CD before the more well-known clockers came into town...his 5F and 6F works at CD were absolutely wonderful.

I liked the horse coming in, and their educated opinions have affirmed it...but all I needed to see was a rare Asmussen bullet followed by a solid maintenance drill...the 4F in 49.2 was overwhelmingly easy, and was much better than Sabercat's work...

The expected pace, Gomez, draw, works, breeding, appearance, third-up, six weeks, etc...I'm game on him.

Will be an all-time wise guy horse. You are NOT getting near 15-1 on this horse.

[VOL JACK]

Steve, you are taking my comments the wrong way.
I'm not trying to beat up Welsch& Young. I think they do a very good job. At something that can be hard to gauge.
I did give them credit on AK.

Mike Welsch was a big reason why I scored out on Barbaro and Street Sense.

As far as my Hard Spun comments, I should've been more clear. I don't remember how Welsch had him rated but, the TVG guys didn't like his work at all going into the Breeders Cup in 2007.

I'm not looking to bash your friends Steve, I'm just trying to point out that these works are not an exact science. Some horses are just bad work horses and lazy in the AM.
It's just funny to me that most handicappers pay little to no attention to works for 95% of the time. Then come Derby and BC week, it's the end all-be all.

[Kasept]

Originally Posted by VOL JACK

Hard Spun was training horrible according to the experts going into the Derby and Breeders Cup Classic. He ran 2nd in both races.

Nehro was a complete toss according to Welsch and Gary Young last year. (to be fair they both loved Animal Kingdom)

Now this year, ,El Padrino is the toss off his works.
The thing is, El Padrino has never been a good work horse.
Yeah, I'd liked to see more than a 53 half the week of the Derby but, at 25-30:1 I'll take my chances.

That's incorrect regarding Hard Spun. He was training well for Derby. The issue was the speed of the big :57 work and whether or not it would have a negative impact on him race day.

Hard to believe anyone would find fault with guys who correctly answered the biggest question of last year's race with a $43.80 winner.

[MaTH716]

Originally Posted by Kasept

That's incorrect regarding Hard Spun. He was training well for Derby. The issue was the speed of the big :57 work and whether or not it would have a negative impact on him race day.

Hard to believe anyone would find fault with guys who correctly answered the biggest question of last year's race with a $43.80 winner.

Steve with all this talk about jogs and works, what's the story or whispers about Creative Cause? I like him, but I'm weary of all this talk about him having a foot issue.

[slotdirt]

Folks were raving about Hard Spun going into the '07 Derby. IIRC, his work was sparkling, but as kasept correctly mentioned, there were some concerns that he went a little fast. It turned out to not be the case.

[justindew]

Originally Posted by Kasept

That's incorrect regarding Hard Spun. He was training well for Derby. The issue was the speed of the big :57 work and whether or not it would have a negative impact on him race day.

Hard to believe anyone would find fault with guys who correctly answered the biggest question of last year's race with a $43.80 winner.

That depends on who you ask, in all honestly. I seem to remember reading something about him appearing sore and stiff before that fast workout.

[Calzone Lord]

Originally Posted by justindew

That depends on who you ask, in all honestly. I seem to remember reading something about him appearing sore and stiff before that fast workout.

Yeah, Andy Beyer picked him to finish dead last in that years Kentucky Derby based on the fact that he ran off in final workout and the clockers all trashed how he finished the work up.

It was a bullet work -- but it was also the consensus most knocked work of any horse who was viewed so much as even a marginal contender in that race.