When "Neighborhood Watch" Gets Out of Hand

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

There is no evidence that Trayvon's race had anything to do with it.

Actually yeah, there is: the only thing Zimmerman knew about this kid, reported to the police, was that he was black and he "didn't know what his deal was". Zimmerman called in a kid walking alone a street simply because he was black. The kid was doing nothing but walking.

On the video, I think you could clearly see that Zimmerman had a gash on the back of his head.

No. Not at all. There is zero evidence of any "gash" on his head. There is zero evidence of blood on the back of the shirt (head "gash") or the front of the shirt ("broken nose"), along with zero dirt or grass stains. Witnesses said he was wearing this shirt during his fight with Treyvon.

Even tiny head lacerations bleed like crazy, especially when you are fighting, and your adrenaline and blood pressure are sky high. Impossible for him to have anything other than a bruise and a completely minor skin abrasion with no blood - and virtually impossible to have any scalp skin break at all, ignored during a fight, without some blood. Let alone zero blood from a "broken nose".

There are several witnesses that said he had a bloody nose. Do you think all those people were lying?

There are witnesses the police ignored that said the opposite. Right now on the video there is zero visible evidence of swelling, injury, blood on his face, blood on the back of his clothes, blood on his sleeve. Amazing, if his nose was broken in the front, and his head "gashed" in the back. The immaculate broken nose?

Zimmerman was treated for his injuries at the scene. The fact that you couldn't see blood on him in the video, after he had been cleaned up at the scene, is hardly proof that there was no altercation.

He was not treated by ambulance personnel, according to the police he was "treated in the back of the squad car". Really? We're supposed to believe that? That no help was called for this crime "victim's" gash and broken nose? Sorry. He didn't change clothes. There is no blood on his clothes. And as a former paramedic, I'll tell you that we don't wash people off. And in a murder, the police wouldn't let us eliminate any blood evidence anyway.

I'm not quite sure what you are saying? Are you saying that you don't think there was a physical altercation?

I'm saying that the facts leaked by the police don't match with the dog and pony show Zimmerman's brother is putting out to the press. The tapes make it clear there were nearly a minute of a person screaming for help, stilled by a gunshot. This police department has a history of racial incompetence and problems in the community. The current police chief was brought in to fix it. Now he's on leave, too.

The problem isn't whether Zimmerman was justified in murdering this child. The problem is this appalling police department of incompetents (yes, they have a record of racial/community problems). The problem is that a murdered kid was allowed to sit in the morgue for three days as a "John Doe", when they had a cell phone and neighborhood they could have canvassed. Took them three days to get that warrant to unlock a locked cell phone? That was dropped in a scuffle and possibly broken? The lead investigator wants an arrest, but he's told not to?

Nothing happened with this case for WEEKS, until the family of the murdered kid went to their Congresswoman. Just another dead black kid, no charges, nothing to see here.

The fight probably lasted 10 seconds.

According to the various 9-11 calls released by the PD, that have the fight and the murder (the shots) in the background, the "fight" lasted at least 45 seconds before a gunshot stills the cries for help.

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by Riot

Actually yeah, there is: the only thing Zimmerman knew about this kid, reported to the police, was that he was black and he "didn't know what his deal was". Zimmerman called in a kid walking alone a street simply because he was black. The kid was doing nothing but walking.



No. Not at all. There is zero evidence of any "gash" on his head. There is zero evidence of blood on the back of the shirt (head "gash") or the front of the shirt ("broken nose"), along with zero dirt or grass stains. Witnesses said he was wearing this shirt during his fight with Treyvon.

Even tiny head lacerations bleed like crazy, especially when your are fighting, and your adrenaline and blood pressure are going. Impossible for him to have anything other than a bruise and a completely minor skin abrasion with no blood - and virtually impossible to have any scalp skin break without some blood. Let alone zero blood from a "broken nose".



There are witnesses the police ignored that said the opposite. Right now on the video there is zero visible evidence of swelling, injury, blood on his face, blood on the back of his clothes, blood on his sleeve. Amazing, if his nose was broken in the front, and his head "gashed" in the back. The immaculate broken nose?



Sorry. He didn't change clothes. There is no blood on his clothes. And as a former paramedic, I'll tell you that we don't wash people off. And in a murder, the police wouldn't let us eliminate any blood evidence anyway.



I'm saying that the facts leaked by the police don't match with the dog and pony show Zimmerman's brother is putting out to the press. This police department has a history of racial incompetence and problems in the community. The current police chief was brought in to fix it. Now he's on leave, too.



According to the various 9-11 calls released by the PD, that have the fight and the murder (the shots) in the background, the "fight" lasted at least 45 seconds before a gunshot stills the cries for help.

I think you can clearly see the gash on the back of his head. You have to watch the video very carefully but when he gets at a certain angle, it is clearly visible.

If Trayvon would have been a Latino male, are you saying that Zimmerman would not have followed him? If that is what you are saying, what do you base that on?

Here is a still photo of the gash on Zimmerman's head:
http://dailycaller.com/2012/03/29/po...w-head-injury/

We will see what ends up happening. There is certainly a lot of pressure on the prosecutor to file charges. Now that the case is under a microscope, are you confident that a thorough investigation will be done?

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

I think you can clearly see the gash on the back of his head. You have to watch the video very carefully but when he gets at a certain angle, it is clearly visible.

If Trayvon would have been a Latino male, are you saying that Zimmerman would not have followed him? If that is what you are saying, what do you base that on?

Here is a still photo of the gash on Zimmerman's head:
http://dailycaller.com/2012/03/29/po...w-head-injury/

We will see what ends up happening. There is certainly a lot of pressure on the prosecutor to file charges. Now that the case is under a microscope, are you confident that a thorough investigation will be done?

Rupert, I'm saying that, if my teenaged son left to walk to the store and back during a televised basketball halftime, and never came home, and three days later I found out he was murdered, and there was very little "police investigation" at all into why my child was dead - I'd be calling my Congresswoman, too.

I've said multiple times in this thread: if they had charged Zimmerman with anything - even unlawful discharge of a weapon - at least there may have been some investigation, some retention of evidence, and trying the case in public could have been halted.

The police, this department with a long history of racial profiling and community unrest, and incompetence, decided within an hour or so no charges at all need be filed, against the advice of the lead investigator. A seventeen-year-old kid is dead, and the police said, "yeah, well, it's okay, it was self-defense, carry on everyone". That's beyond absurd incompetence.

When a pedestrian walks across the 4-lane New Circle Road in Lexington, and gets hit and killed by a motorist (sadly happens a couple times a year), the motorist is given a breathalyzer, report taken, scene forensics, etc. done. The cops just don't say, "Oh, you say didn't see him in the rain? Okay. We believe you", and let it go after an hour or two. Even if zero charges are filed against the driver as they couldn't avoid it. The investigation leads to the truth. A thorough investigation of why a person is suddenly dead at the hand of another.

There was little to no apparent investigation of the murder of this teenaged boy.

BTW: re the Daily Caller "enhanced" video: an alleged "possible" two-inch skull laceration produced no blood on the shirt witnesses said he was wearing at the scene? No. I'm not buying that, unless police photos taken at the time show one bloody mess on the back of his collar and shirt.

Any skull laceration, even tiny, produces copious amounts of blood - ask the parent of any two-year-old. And a lac that large calls for immediate sutures in the ER. That was never done. If it (what the DC alleges possibly could be a strange vertical cut along the top of the scalp) is true, it must have left a huge visible bumpy scar, having been left to heal without any wound closure.

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by Riot

Rupert, I'm saying that, if my teenaged son left to walk to the store and back during a televised basketball halftime, and never came home, and three days later I found out he was murdered, and there was very little "police investigation" at all into why my child was dead - I'd be calling my Congresswoman, too.

I've said multiple times in this thread: if they had charged Zimmerman with anything - even unlawful discharge of a weapon - at least there may have been some investigation, some retention of evidence, and trying the case in public could have been halted.

The police, this department with a long history of racial profiling and community unrest, and incompetence, decided within an hour or so no charges at all need be filed, against the advice of the lead investigator. A seventeen-year-old kid is dead, and the police said, "yeah, well, it's okay, it was self-defense, carry on everyone". That's beyond absurd incompetence.

When a pedestrian walks across the 4-lane New Circle Road in Lexington, and gets hit and killed by a motorist (sadly happens a couple times a year), the motorist is given a breathalyzer, report taken, scene forensics, etc. done. The cops just don't say, "Oh, you say didn't see him in the rain? Okay. We believe you", and let it go after an hour or two. Even if zero charges are filed against the driver as they couldn't avoid it. The investigation leads to the truth. A thorough investigation of why a person is suddenly dead at the hand of another.

There was little to no apparent investigation of the murder of this teenaged boy.

BTW: re the Daily Caller "enhanced" video: an alleged "possible" two-inch skull laceration produced no blood on the shirt witnesses said he was wearing at the scene? No. I'm not buying that, unless police photos taken at the time show one bloody mess on the back of his collar and shirt.

Any skull laceration, even tiny, produces copious amounts of blood - ask the parent of any two-year-old. And a lac that large calls for immediate sutures in the ER. That was never done. If it (what the DC alleges possibly could be a strange vertical cut along the top of the scalp) is true, it must have left a huge visible bumpy scar, having been left to heal without any wound closure.

I agree with you. I think there should be a thorough investigation. But I don't think people should be convicting this guy before there is a thorough investigation.

I think you bring up good points about no blood being visible on his shirt. I can't explain why there is no blood visible on his shirt. But I also can't explain why numerous witnesses said his nose was broken and bloody. I guess it's possible that they were all lying. It will be interesting to see what the medical report says and what the paramedics say. Some people might discount the medical report and claim that Zimmerman inflicted the injuries on himself before he went to the doctor (or hospital or wherever he got treated) the next day. But I think it will be hard to discount the testimony of the paramedics.