OUTRAGUS government overreach by FDA!

[Clip-Clop]

Originally Posted by GenuineRisk

This statement smacks of Santorum-esque "In my heart I know this is true" -ism. Please give some sources to back up the assertion that superbugs are solely due to parental overuse of antibiotics on their children.

The use of antibiotics in food animals became necessary as more and more animals were jammed into smaller and smaller areas. If herd immunity worked the way you seem to think it does, factory farm animals should be healthier than free-range animals, not the other way around.

But I look forward to your sources, as I am always interested in learning something new.

The decision that it is cheaper and simpler to treat the herd vs. treating the animal is what has gone wrong in farms. The thought that these treatments would trickle all the way through and have an effect on humans is what I questioned.

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/antibiotics/FL00075

http://www.marinmedicalsociety.org/m...?articleid=507

My wife is a research biologist in pharmaceuticals and despite the evil that goes along with such a post, this is pretty common knowledge in the research community, along with those that opt out of vaccines. She did her dissertation on this specific problem along with her thesis on the effect on ruminants in particular. I was studying human digestion at the same time in anatomy and was surprised to learn how similar the parts were, hence my interest in what she was up to.

[GenuineRisk]

Originally Posted by Clip-Clop

The decision that it is cheaper and simpler to treat the herd vs. treating the animal is what has gone wrong in farms. The thought that these treatments would trickle all the way through and have an effect on humans is what I questioned.

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/antibiotics/FL00075

http://www.marinmedicalsociety.org/m...?articleid=507

My wife is a research biologist in pharmaceuticals and despite the evil that goes along with such a post, this is pretty common knowledge in the research community, along with those that opt out of vaccines. She did her dissertation on this specific problem along with her thesis on the effect on ruminants in particular. I was studying human digestion at the same time in anatomy and was surprised to learn how similar the parts were, hence my interest in what she was up to.

Your original statement, though, was that the rise in superbugs was entirely due to overprescription by pediatricians to children, because their parents demanded it. That's what I was challenging. I don't disagree that overuse and misuse are a problem; I just think the blame falls more on adult misuse, both here and overseas (where there is a real lack of regulation) than on pediatricians and demanding parents. Mind you, I'm a sample size of one, but my toddler's totally awesome doc won't prescribe unless necessary. He just got through a bout with hand foot mouth disease and treatment was Motrin and popsicles.

For what it's worth, misuse in livestock is also considered a cause:

http://www.foodsafetynews.com/2012/0...l-antibiotics/

And it's not just a case of it's in what you consume from the animal; the antibiotics also end up in our soil and water supply because they're excreted in the animal waste and many states don't exactly have strong regulations about the disposal of the massive amounts of waste the factory farms produce.

Thanks also for posting a link to an article on the importance of vaccination. The anti-vax movement seems to be one of the few where one can genuinely say, "both sides do it" as I know both libs and cons who have no problem taking health care advice from a former Playboy Playmate.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by GenuineRisk

Your original statement, though, was that the rise in superbugs was entirely due to overprescription by pediatricians to children, because their parents demanded it.

Which is indeed a silly statement, with zero basis in physiology.

[Clip-Clop]

Originally Posted by GenuineRisk

Your original statement, though, was that the rise in superbugs was entirely due to overprescription by pediatricians to children, because their parents demanded it. That's what I was challenging. I don't disagree that overuse and misuse are a problem; I just think the blame falls more on adult misuse, both here and overseas (where there is a real lack of regulation) than on pediatricians and demanding parents. Mind you, I'm a sample size of one, but my toddler's totally awesome doc won't prescribe unless necessary. He just got through a bout with hand foot mouth disease and treatment was Motrin and popsicles.

For what it's worth, misuse in livestock is also considered a cause:

http://www.foodsafetynews.com/2012/0...l-antibiotics/

And it's not just a case of it's in what you consume from the animal; the antibiotics also end up in our soil and water supply because they're excreted in the animal waste and many states don't exactly have strong regulations about the disposal of the massive amounts of waste the factory farms produce.

Thanks also for posting a link to an article on the importance of vaccination. The anti-vax movement seems to be one of the few where one can genuinely say, "both sides do it" as I know both libs and cons who have no problem taking health care advice from a former Playboy Playmate.

Despite never using the word entirely, nothing in medicine has any singular root cause that can be explained away so easily, I know doc's that repeatedly claim that patients do come in and 'demand' to be given anti, no matter what. It is nice to hear you have a logical Dr. that actually does their work. Interesting theory on the waste disposal, had not thought of that...
I do miss Jenny and all her nonsense during the vax terror years.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Clip-Clop

Despite never using the word entirely, nothing in medicine has any singular root cause that can be explained away so easily

Yet you just made three statements that did exactly that. And are very, very angry that someone with far more knowledge than you pointed it out.

[Clip-Clop]

Originally Posted by Riot

Yet you just made three statements that did exactly that. And are very, very angry that someone with far more knowledge than you pointed it out.

Not angry, just shocked that you are still trying to convince anyone of anything at all really, from way up on that high horse of yours. You have not answered one question or refuted one argument or utilized any of that massive wealth of knowledge to prove any of what I said incorrect.
Once again you have proven that a real discussion or debate about any topic is completely pointless when you are involved.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Clip-Clop

Not angry, just shocked that you are still trying to convince anyone of anything at all really, from way up on that high horse of yours.You have not answered one question or refuted one argument or utilized any of that massive wealth of knowledge to prove any of what I said incorrect. Once again you have proven that a real discussion or debate about any topic is completely pointless when you are involved.

Geeshus - just stop posting nonsensical, superficial, shallow blog c.rap and pretending that somehow makes you a medical expert, and further, your ridiculous contention that the scope of those subjects is discussable at a grade school level, and that professionals that refuse to engage you at that ridiculous level are the ones with "zero knowledge". That makes you the joke.

Stick to the immature ad hominem.