PVal, PVal wherefore art thou, PVal?

[Bigsmc]

It doesn't matter what the issue is with his girlfriend, he has no legitimate excuse because he didn't pick up the phone.

Make a damn phone call BEFORE you are a no show. That's how the rest of the world works.

Too much regulation. So what if he didn't make a phone call? S.hit happens. Let me ask this...are these people in power employing this guy and paying his taxes? If not, unless he kills another horse or jockey why should anyone care if he's on drugs?

I'll tell you why...because there's too many people on earth. The only jobs that can keep the masses employed are jobs where you're controlling, taxing, ruining the lives of others. We don't make anything these days...instead we create jobs that do nothing but keep a moron fed and the people they deal with absolutely miserable and domesticated.

Mind your own god-damned business. You can ride horses and be coked up. Not everyone responds the same to drugs. F.uck Nancy Reagan. If owners, trainers or whoever wants to hire this guy then it's their choice.

[Danzig]

i agree actually. i don't get why employers have the 'right' to test anyone. it's not exactly constitutional.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Danzig

i agree actually. i don't get why employers have the 'right' to test anyone. it's not exactly constitutional.

His employers arent testing him, the state which grants his professional license is. In his case he has a conditional license so he is held to a different standard.

I have a hard time believing that you are going to get much support for letting someone who is impared ride a horse going 40 mph. This is different than testing a stockboy at Wal-Mart for weed.

[Danzig]

what he does in his leisure time is no one's business. i guess that's my biggest beef right there. you'd have to think it would be common sense not to get on a horse while one is impaired; but perhaps like they say, common sense isn't so common.
i've read where jockeys were riding who couldn't even stand because of dehydration. but they could pilot a half ton of horse?

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Cardus

The United States Constitution is a document proscribing and limiting Federal government power.

so, you're suggesting our bill of rights doesn't apply if a state or local, or private entity tries to trample on our rights? free speech? freedom from illegal search and seizure, etc, etc? i don't think that's quite correct.

[GenuineRisk]

Originally Posted by Danzig

so, you're suggesting our bill of rights doesn't apply if a state or local, or private entity tries to trample on our rights? free speech? freedom from illegal search and seizure, etc, etc? i don't think that's quite correct.

If you work for a private employer and you are not a member of a union or under a contract, you are considered an "at-will" employee and can be fired for any reason the employer chooses that is not specifically prohibited by law. Refusal to submit to drug testing does not fall under things prohibited by law.

And if you don't like it? Find another job.

As someone else mentioned, the Bill of Rights does not apply to private sector employment.

Originally Posted by GenuineRisk

If you work for a private employer and you are not a member of a union or under a contract, you are considered an "at-will" employee and can be fired for any reason the employer chooses that is not specifically prohibited by law. Refusal to submit to drug testing does not fall under things prohibited by law.

And if you don't like it? Find another job.

As someone else mentioned, the Bill of Rights does not apply to private sector employment.

It's not necessarily "private sector" when the state is involved. But taaaanks for trying.

[NTamm1215]

Originally Posted by Danzig

so, you're suggesting our bill of rights doesn't apply if a state or local, or private entity tries to trample on our rights? free speech? freedom from illegal search and seizure, etc, etc? i don't think that's quite correct.

You think the 4th Amendment protects people from taking drug tests at private entities? I don't.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by NTamm1215

You think the 4th Amendment protects people from taking drug tests at private entities? I don't.

timing is everything!


btw, it should.

[NTamm1215]

Originally Posted by Danzig

timing is everything!


btw, it should.

I think that the original intent of the founders, with regards to the fourth amendment, had to do much more with overreaching illegal searches and seizures. That would include warrantless searches of personal property or domeciles and doesn't really extend to what happens in a private business.

If a private school or business has a commitment to a drug-free workplace and lets that be known from the start then it is incumbent upon the student/employee seeking admission/employment there to understand it. Simply, in my opinion, if you don't like it, go elsewhere.

How this ties back in to PVal is a bit hazy because of the unique aspects of his life and time as a rider. However, if the State of California is what regulates his standing as a jockey and they've determined the criteria that will be used for him to remain eligible then he has the option to ride elsewhere, as he did for most of 2008-2010.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Cardus

By the way, no it shouldn't.

well, i guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. there weren't many big businesses back in the day; i doubt the founders thought that things such as bumper stickers or facebook postings would cause someone to get fired. or what you do on your free time for that matter.

did anyone read the article i posted? a guy fires workers who drink and he finds out, because he feels drinking is immoral. what has that got to do with your job? not a thing. it's certainly not illegal, and it's none of the owners business.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Cardus

I didn't say state, county, or towns could "trample".

i'm not sure exactly what you're saying at this point....

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Cardus

Not when a private entity is concerned. That is not government intrusion.

i found this:

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/s...ryId=123024596


i've learned something new today. i guess like many others, i had no idea. yikes. i figured laws on discrimination, age hiring/firing, etc, had come from rulings based on the constitution.

[Indian Charlie]

Originally Posted by Coach Pants

Too much regulation. So what if he didn't make a phone call? S.hit happens. Let me ask this...are these people in power employing this guy and paying his taxes? If not, unless he kills another horse or jockey why should anyone care if he's on drugs?

I'll tell you why...because there's too many people on earth. The only jobs that can keep the masses employed are jobs where you're controlling, taxing, ruining the lives of others. We don't make anything these days...instead we create jobs that do nothing but keep a moron fed and the people they deal with absolutely miserable and domesticated.

Mind your own god-damned business. You can ride horses and be coked up. Not everyone responds the same to drugs. F.uck Nancy Reagan. If owners, trainers or whoever wants to hire this guy then it's their choice.

amen.

[Revidere]

Originally Posted by Coach Pants

Too much regulation. So what if he didn't make a phone call? S.hit happens. Let me ask this...are these people in power employing this guy and paying his taxes? If not, unless he kills another horse or jockey why should anyone care if he's on drugs?

I'll tell you why...because there's too many people on earth. The only jobs that can keep the masses employed are jobs where you're controlling, taxing, ruining the lives of others. We don't make anything these days...instead we create jobs that do nothing but keep a moron fed and the people they deal with absolutely miserable and domesticated.

Mind your own god-damned business. You can ride horses and be coked up. Not everyone responds the same to drugs. F.uck Nancy Reagan. If owners, trainers or whoever wants to hire this guy then it's their choice.

It's obvious that people can post while impaired....

[iamthelurker]

chilli dippin trippin... bro bro

[dino]

I know it goes against what young people believe these days but there are rules in life. If you want to be a jockey you need to take drug tests. If you don't want to take drug test then do something else. Seems simple to me.

[Dahoss]

Originally Posted by dino

I know it goes against what young people believe these days but there are rules in life.

P Val is like 50 now right? This isn't a young person vs not so young person debate. Seems like at 50 P Val hasn't figured out there are rules in life.

I understand Coach's point about too much regulation and I agree with him that some people react to drugs differently. I don't think all jockeys should be tested, however considering the dozens of chances the guy has had, I think testing him is necessary and the fact he couldn't be bothered to pick up the phone when he KNOWS he should have means he probably doesn't deserve the benefit of the doubt.

Most people can't just fall off the face of the earth one day and not follow through with occupational obligations. They would be fired, and rightfully so.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Dahoss

P Val is like 50 now right? This isn't a young person vs not so young person debate. Seems like at 50 P Val hasn't figured out there are rules in life.

I understand Coach's point about too much regulation and I agree with him that some people react to drugs differently. I don't think all jockeys should be tested, however considering the dozens of chances the guy has had, I think testing him is necessary and the fact he couldn't be bothered to pick up the phone when he KNOWS he should have means he probably doesn't deserve the benefit of the doubt.

Most people can't just fall off the face of the earth one day and not follow through with occupational obligations. They would be fired, and rightfully so.

really, this soap opera shouldn't have continued this long. it's what causes the drama to continue, they keep giving more chances-just like dutrow, biancone...