AZ Congresswoman in critical condition after shooting

[Riot]

is a far better example of ‘vitriolic rhetoric’ as opposed to putting bulls eyes on a poster.

I think Kanjorski's, "Put him against the wall and shoot him." - clearly over the top. You? What about references to violence and guns in general. Yes? No?

Jackson cutting Obama's balls off was a private comment picked up by a mic - what if he had said that at a rally, in public?

[Riot]

What they didn't ask him, and what I would want to know, is would Joe have gone outside if he didn't have a gun on him? I would guess not. He still gets credit for being brave.

Joe Zamudio, was in a nearby pharmacy -- armed -- when the shooting began. He rushed over and helped subdue the killer:

"I came out of that store, I clicked the safety off, and I was ready," he explained on Fox and Friends. "I had my hand on my gun. I had it in my jacket pocket here. And I came around the corner like this." Zamudio demonstrated how his shooting hand was wrapped around the weapon, poised to draw and fire. As he rounded the corner, he saw a man holding a gun. "And that's who I at first thought was the shooter," Zamudio recalled. "I told him to 'Drop it, drop it!' "

But the man with the gun wasn't the shooter. He had wrested the gun away from the shooter. "Had you shot that guy, it would have been a big, fat mess," the interviewer pointed out.

Zamudio agreed:

"I was very lucky. Honestly, it was a matter of seconds. Two, maybe three seconds between when I came through the doorway and when I was laying on top of [the real shooter], holding him down. So, I mean, in that short amount of time I made a lot of really big decisions really fast. … I was really lucky.

Zamudio has no professional or military training with weapons. He also, according to the Arizona Daily Star, didn't initially pull out his own weapon because he was afraid of being confused as a second gunman.

[dellinger63]

Originally Posted by Riot

What they didn't ask him, and what I would want to know, is would Joe have gone outside if he didn't have a gun on him? I would guess not. He still gets credit for being brave.

He never took his gun out and didn't because he was afraid of being identified as the gunman and you want to know if he would have gone outside unarmed? What do you think he did? Rely on his holstered gun for a good luck charm? Or for courage a la the Scarecrow in the Wizard of Oz? Does he get more credit unarmed? Or less if he drew? What an odd question. IMO. America is great because of guys like this.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by dellinger63

He never took his gun out and didn't because he was afraid of being identified as the gunman and you want to know if he would have gone outside unarmed? What do you think he did? Rely on his holstered gun for a good luck charm? Or for courage a la the Scarecrow in the Wizard of Oz? Does he get more credit unarmed? Or less if he drew? What an odd question. IMO. America is great because of guys like this.

Yeah, Dell, I exactly wonder if he would have gone towards gunshots, if he did not have a loaded gun in his pocket.

That question has nothing at all to do if the gun was visible (drawn) or not. That doesn't matter.

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by Riot

Yeah, Dell, I exactly wonder if he would have gone towards gunshots, if he did not have a loaded gun in his pocket.

That question has nothing at all to do if the gun was visible (drawn) or not. That doesn't matter.

I know that personally I'd feel much more comfortable going after a psycho murderer if I was locked and loaded.

But the initial guys who took down the psycho were not armed I believe.. I think one of them had a bullet graze his head too.

[dellinger63]

Originally Posted by Riot

Yeah, Dell, I exactly wonder if he would have gone towards gunshots, if he did not have a loaded gun in his pocket.

That question has nothing at all to do if the gun was visible (drawn) or not. That doesn't matter.

I guess we'll have to go with the facts. He did go towards gunshots with a gun in his pocket and not in his hand. Call me crazy but even if he had drawn and went towards the gunshots he's a hero in my mind.

To you it somehow matters and that seems even more odd to me now.

[Riot]

[quote=dellinger63;741743]I guess we'll have to go with the facts. He did go towards gunshots with a gun in his pocket and not in his hand. Call me crazy but even if he had drawn and went towards the gunshots he's a hero in my mind.

To you it somehow matters and that seems even more odd to me now.[/QUOTE

Sigh. My head hurts.

It makes no difference to me in thinking he is a hero or not. Whether his gun was drawn or not makes no difference to me either (and he gets credit for being smart enough not to pull it out and display it)

I simply was wondering if he didn't have a gun at all on his person, would he still have gone towards shots?

[dellinger63]

Originally Posted by Riot

Sigh. My head hurts.

I simply was wondering if he didn't have a gun at all on his person, would he still have gone towards shots?

At least now you've declassified into just wondering. When it mattered well that was weird. And when you originally wrote, "What they didn't ask him, and what I would want to know, is would Joe have gone outside if he didn't have a gun on him? I would guess not. He still gets credit for being brave."

I took that as in your opinion 'Joe' would not have been so brave w/o a gun when in fact he went outside, gun in pocket, not drawn to offer aid so my guess would have been yes he would have. You however have always seemed to have had insight into the lives and thoughts of people you don't even know.

You maybe right. Not that it matters or is even worth wondering about?

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by Riot

What they didn't ask him, and what I would want to know, is would Joe have gone outside if he didn't have a gun on him? I would guess not. He still gets credit for being brave.

Arizona has the best gun laws out there (tho very unfortunate that this happened on Saturday). Its too bad an armed grocery store customer wasnt able to take the lunatic out before he shot so many people.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Antitrust32

Arizona has the best gun laws out there (tho very unfortunate that this happened on Saturday). Its too bad an armed grocery store customer wasnt able to take the lunatic out before he shot so many people.

A GOP Republican is going to submit legislation to make it illegal to carry a gun within 1000 feet of any member of Congress. I don't see the point, myself.

What about changing ammunition laws back to what they used to be, so you don't get to get off 30 shots in seconds?

Or maybe having to fill out a permit to carry? It's easier to buy that gun and ammunition than it is to get Sudafed OTC in AZ.

[SOREHOOF]

Originally Posted by Riot

A GOP Republican is going to submit legislation to make it illegal to carry a gun within 1000 feet of any member of Congress. I don't see the point, myself.

What about changing ammunition laws back to what they used to be, so you don't get to get off 30 shots in seconds?

Or maybe having to fill out a permit to carry? It's easier to buy that gun and ammunition than it is to get Sudafed OTC in AZ.

They are. Just not in N.Y. and that didn't stop the insane creep that shot up the civic building in Binghamton almost 2 years ago. 14 dead. Not political. Just insane. If you think your Govt. can protect you from crazy people and random acts of violence by passing laws you are very wrong. Sometimes bad things happen to good people. That's just the way the cookie crumbles. Everyone should be armed. The good people still outnumber the bad by a large margin.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by SOREHOOF

If you think your Govt. can protect you from crazy people and random acts of violence by passing laws you are very wrong. Sometimes bad things happen to good people. That's just the way the cookie crumbles. Everyone should be armed. The good people still outnumber the bad by a large margin.

I'm not ready to get rid of laws that say robbery and murder are punishable offenses, thanks. I do suspect there is a bit of a deterrent factor there.

[SOREHOOF]

Originally Posted by Riot

I'm not ready to get rid of laws that say robbery and murder are punishable offenses, thanks. I do suspect there is a bit of a deterrent factor there.

I don't want to either. But if a criminal thinks everyone in a given place may be armed he (or she) might decide to go after easier prey. I know you aren't anti gun. There has been no uptick in crimes like this since the ban on these magazines expired 7 years ago. The "assault weapon" ban did nothing to protect anyone although I'm sure it made a lot of progressive politicians feel good about themselves.

[dellinger63]

Originally Posted by Riot

I think Kanjorski's, "Put him against the wall and shoot him." - clearly over the top. You?

I think when you include the rest of his quote, you know, "He stole billions of dollars from the United States government and he's running for governor of Florida. He's a millionaire and a billionaire. He's no hero. He's a damn crook. It's just we don't prosecute big crooks" NO!

Wonder why you left the rest of the quote out when you seem like such a stickler for taking things out of context. Simple mistake

[Riot]

I left the quote out because it is here in it's entirety in this thread, and I figured you'd know what I am referring to. Then let's do the whole quote:

"That Scott down there that's running for governor of Florida," Mr. Kanjorski said. "Instead of running for governor of Florida, they ought to have him and shoot him. Put him against the wall and shoot him. He stole billions of dollars from the United States government and he's running for governor of Florida. He's a millionaire and a billionaire. He's no hero. He's a damn crook. It's just we don't prosecute big crooks."

Yeah, I think that's definitely over the top, recommending shooting your opponent. Completely out of place, uncalled for, appalling.

"Oh, but I didn't mean it literally!"

Florida did elect someone whose company indeed stole millions of dollars from the US, and had to give it back with fines. Unbelievable. I personally do think he's a healthcare crook. But the best choice out of what was offered. But still that is no reason for a public call for assassination.

You think that is okay to say that? Seriously?

[dellinger63]

Originally Posted by Riot

I left the quote out because it is here in it's entirety in this thread, and I figured you'd know what I am referring to. Then let's do the whole quote:

"That Scott down there that's running for governor of Florida," Mr. Kanjorski said. "Instead of running for governor of Florida, they ought to have him and shoot him. Put him against the wall and shoot him. He stole billions of dollars from the United States government and he's running for governor of Florida. He's a millionaire and a billionaire. He's no hero. He's a damn crook. It's just we don't prosecute big crooks."

Yeah, I think that's definitely over the top, recommending shooting your opponent. Completely out of place, uncalled for, appalling.

"Oh, but I didn't mean it literally!"

Florida did elect someone whose company indeed stole millions of dollars from the US, and had to give it back with fines. Unbelievable. I personally do think he's a healthcare crook. But the best choice out of what was offered. But still that is no reason for a public call for assassination.

You think that is okay to say that? Seriously?

Of course I do. It may be wrong or asinine but I think it still passes as speech. Then the voters of FL spoke their way.

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by dellinger63

Of course I do. It may be wrong or asinine but I think it still passes as speech. Then the voters of FL spoke their way.

that race was like trying to decide between Bush and John Kerry.. i think I wrote in a fake candidate or voted for an independent.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by dellinger63

Of course I do. It may be wrong or asinine but I think it still passes as speech. Then the voters of FL spoke their way.

I assume you think it's okay because normal people would assume he didn't mean it literally.

But what if he started calling for the guy to be shot at every political stop? What if he repeated that exact paragraph, calmly smiling, shaking hands, at every campaign stop, as a talking point?

[dellinger63]

Originally Posted by Riot

But what if he started calling for the guy to be shot at every political stop? What if he repeated that exact paragraph, calmly smiling, shaking hands, at every campaign stop, as a talking point?

The majority of your input in this thread deals with what the Sheriff did or didn't state you want to now magically transform and deal with a hypothetical?

You don’t find that the least bit hypocritical?

He didn't and I think if he did he'd have about six supporters so the campaign in its entirety would stop. America works if you allow her!

[somerfrost]

Wow, I'm glad I'm not dead too! Ten pages and counting of the "blame game", useless babble! Hear that the Congresswoman is breathing on her own today, good sign but recovery is a long road, I pray she recovers fully and leads a normal life.