Pioneer of the Nile misses the top 20....

[slotdirt]

Even if Festin wasn't a better horse than Zenyatta, it was still a pretty good pull.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Festin would have trounced Zenyatta ... Zenyatta's own sire Street Cry... also didn't come around fully till age 4 like her .. but Street Cry would have absolutely demolished Zenyatta.





STREET CRY




The difference is that Zenyatta is running against sheer equine filth of the female variety ... and Street Cry and Festin ran against excellent top older males like Left Bank and Sakhee - and In Excess, Farma Way, Unbridled, Black Tie Affair etc.

Festin needed a very fast pace - and only really got it once. He was hindered in the Black Tie Affair Classic by a slow pace.

[blackthroatedwind]

Festin would have routinely beaten Zenyatta, as DrugS said, and pretty much nobody has even heard of him.

But, Zenyatta is, apparently, the 18th best horse of all-time....and those that disagree are haters and worthy of derision.

By the way.....you may be wrong about Count Fleet. There are old-time figure makers that believe he might have been the fastest.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

By the way.....you may be wrong about Count Fleet. There are old-time figure makers that believe he might have been the fastest.

He ran just six times at age 3 - in five stakes races.

His wins in the Wood, Derby, Preakness, and Withers - I'm pretty confident are not faster than 114 tops. There are a lot of other races to work with on those cards.

The race I think these old-time figure makers might be refering to - is his 25 length win in the Belmont in his final start.

I posted the form of the horse who finished 2nd earlier in this thread - he's a slug - and the 3rd place finisher was even worse. It was just a field of 3. They make Twice A Prince and My Gallant look like Ghostzapper and Formal Gold.

There was another route the day Count Fleet won the Belmont - also at 12fs - it was a MSW race that went 7.20 full seconds slower. However, it was a pretty horrid looking MSW race on paper. This was the workman like winner ...



Count Fleet only ran six times at age three - never faced an older horse - faced a horrid looking 3yo crop - and if he did run supersonic fast in one race, he did it at 12fs against two laughing stock plugs in a race its not easy to make a number for.

He didn't do enough to be considered the 5th best American horse ever. Had he not become injured after the Belmont - and took it to older horses - than yeah, maybe.