Bernardini IS

Originally Posted by Cajungator26

I agree with all of that, but you have to admit that some people just aren't happy any way you look at it. Personally, I think we have been blessed with a few of the most talented 3 year olds I've seen. Whether or not they've been facing subpar fields... I just don't know. I am of the same opinion of Bernardini as you... I want to see more. The reality is though... IF he beats everyone in the BCC, will he be called a fraud because the quality of the field isn't considered "great?" I think that's what Travis Stone was saying... Bern can't win for winning.

One of the reasons why horse racing fans aren't happy is due to the small fields and the constant ducking and dodging the connections due to avoid real competition. The JCGC was a shining example of what's wrong with the sport. A 3yr old, not an accomplished older horse, scares away everyone but Aidan O'Brien and Nick Zito. One of the most prestigious races in North America is reduced to essentially a match race between a speed and fader and the greatest thing since sliced bread.

Now tell me, why should the racing fan be happy with a race like that?

P.S. And Bernardini's connections aren't innocent of this either. I don't care what anyone says. He wasn't ready for the Derby but magically two weeks later he's ready? Yeah right.

[Cajungator26]

Originally Posted by Pillow Pants

One of the reasons why horse racing fans aren't happy is due to the small fields and the constant ducking and dodging the connections due to avoid real competition. The JCGC was a shining example of what's wrong with the sport. A 3yr old, not an accomplished older horse, scares away everyone but Aidan O'Brien and Nick Zito. One of the most prestigious races in North America is reduced to essentially a match race between a speed and fader and the greatest thing since sliced bread.

Now tell me, why should the racing fan be happy with a race like that?

A racing fan SHOULDN'T be happy with a race like that, but the question is... IF he wins the BCC against another ho-hum field, will he be called a fraud?

Originally Posted by Cajungator26

A racing fan SHOULDN'T be happy with a race like that, but the question is... IF he wins the BCC against another ho-hum field, will he be called a fraud?

Nobody is calling him a fraud. He's a really good horse and he'll have to be considered great if he wins the race. Will it justify comparing him to the all-time greats? More than likely not, but it will happen unfortunately.

[Pointg5]

Originally Posted by Cajungator26

A racing fan SHOULDN'T be happy with a race like that, but the question is... IF he wins the BCC against another ho-hum field, will he be called a fraud?

Yes, I will think he's a great horse, I just want a bigger field. I do not dislike the horse, but I don't like all of the lavish praise he gets. I would happily proclaim him one of the greats if he wins, even if he guts it out and just gets up, I would be more happy with a finish like that, it would show he has some heart...

[Cajungator26]

Originally Posted by Pointg5

Yes, I will think he's a great horse, I just want a bigger field. I do not dislike the horse, but I don't like all of the lavish praise he gets. I would happily proclaim him one of the greats if he wins, even if he guts it out and just gets up, I would be more happy with a finish like that, it would show he has some heart...

Agreed. And that's how I feel too...

Originally Posted by Cajungator26

Agreed. And that's how I feel too...

Me too, and you are talking to a guy who thinks Larry Holmes got screwed out of his place in history in the boxing world because there wasn't anyone around for him to fight who was any good when he was in his prime.
I just wanna see him meet a full field of decent horses with an honest pace and should he win like a great horse, I'll shower the praise down upon him.

If this was a Pletcher or Dutrow horse or some trainer its trendy to bash, then he would be getting even more folks questioning him, and thats a fact.
I think after the BCC in less than 4 weeks that everyone will be on the same page with him. Especially if he meets Invasor.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Pillow Pants

P.S. And Bernardini's connections aren't innocent of this either. I don't care what anyone says. He wasn't ready for the Derby but magically two weeks later he's ready? Yeah right.

He broke his maiden the first week of March. Where do you suppose he would have got any graded stakes earnings between then and the derby?

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

He broke his maiden the first week of March. Where do you suppose he would have got any graded stakes earnings between then and the derby?

Oh I forgot they cancelled all of the derby preps between march 21-april 14th.

My bad.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Pillow Pants

Oh I forgot they cancelled all of the derby preps between march 21-april 14th.

My bad.

He hit the gate when he broke his maiden, don't you think that he may have come out of the race a little sore since they didn't run him back until the 29th? I mean in the history of horseracing so many horses have broke their maiden in March and been pointed directly to the Derby. The fact he was able to win the Preakness in his first two turn race on May 20 was a top achievement

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

He hit the gate when he broke his maiden, don't you think that he may have come out of the race a little sore since they didn't run him back until the 29th? I mean in the history of horseracing so many horses have broke their maiden in March and been pointed directly to the Derby. The fact he was able to win the Preakness in his first two turn race on May 20 was a top achievement

A top achievement against tired horses. Pisses me off. There needs to be changes to the TC format. It's become nothing but a duck, dodge, and pounce on the weary series.

Originally Posted by Pillow Pants

A top achievement against tired horses. Pisses me off. There needs to be changes to the TC format. It's become nothing but a duck, dodge, and pounce on the weary series.

Asking horses to run 3 miles and 15/16th's in three different states in 35 days is lunacy, pure lunacy. Anyone who chooses not to do that is just smart.

Originally Posted by oracle80

Asking horses to run 3 miles and 15/16th's in three different states in 35 days is lunacy, pure lunacy. Anyone who chooses not to do that is just smart.

I agree. The Belmont should be held on July 4th.

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

He broke his maiden the first week of March. Where do you suppose he would have got any graded stakes earnings between then and the derby?

Never EVER will you hear me bashing anyone for skipping the tri crown or a race within that series.
You can see what the tri crown has done to our best three year olds in the past decade. Its no coiincidence that the most accomplished three year olds who went on to do great things in the summer/fall or at age 4, all skipped part or all of the Tri Crown. Messrs Bell, Ferguson and Albertrani(as well as Sheikh Mo) deserve kudos for not rushing him to the Crown. They have been rewarded with a sound animal for that decision. I wish more would follow their lead in the future.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by oracle80

Never EVER will you hear me bashing anyone for skipping the tri crown or a race within that series.
You can see what the tri crown has done to our best three year olds in the past decade. Its no coiincidence that the most accomplished three year olds who went on to do great things in the summer/fall or at age 4, all skipped part or all of the Tri Crown. Messrs Bell, Ferguson and Albertrani(as well as Sheikh Mo) deserve kudos for not rushing him to the Crown. They have been rewarded with a sound animal for that decision. I wish more would follow their lead in the future.

Fact is that they were pretty aggresive going from maiden win to Withers to Preakness. That the horse won so easily distracts you from this.

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Fact is that they were pretty aggresive going from maiden win to Withers to Preakness. That the horse won so easily distracts you from this.

The Withers was specifically chosen due to the fact that it was an allowance race type field of 4 horses.
Luxembourg had only won a maiden and non winners one. Doc Cheney not even that. I don't recall the straggler but he was the same.

The Preakness contained a small field as well, and other then Sweet, Bro D, and Barb, there was noone of any real consequence.
Those moves were not as aggressive as you paint them. They then backed off the Belmont where he would have been 3-5, that was very conservative and the key to his development.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by oracle80

The Withers was specifically chosen due to the fact that it was an allowance race type field of 4 horses.
Luxembourg had only won a maiden and non winners one. Doc Cheney not even that. I don't recall the straggler but he was the same.

The Preakness contained a small field as well, and other then Sweet, Bro D, and Barb, there was noone of any real consequence.
Those moves were not as aggressive as you paint them. They then backed off the Belmont where he would have been 3-5, that was very conservative and the key to his development.

Preakness looks softer now then it did then. And I hate to say it but the Belmont is really only important if you win the other 2 races.

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Preakness looks softer now then it did then. And I hate to say it but the Belmont is really only important if you win the other 2 races.

but we know that NOW, no one knew before the race unfolded how things were going to go.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by oracle80

The Withers was specifically chosen due to the fact that it was an allowance race type field of 4 horses.

Actually I believe he was slated to go in a conditional allowance the Friday prior to the Withers and chose the Withers instead when told it was coming up so light.

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

Actually I believe he was slated to go in a conditional allowance the Friday prior to the Withers and chose the Withers instead when told it was coming up so light.

Thats correct, he was actually "hustled" into the field when told only three others were running.
Who was the straggler who was 4th? I can't recall who it was.

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

Actually I believe he was slated to go in a conditional allowance the Friday prior to the Withers and chose the Withers instead when told it was coming up so light.

Absolutely right in this contention. Read from Bloodhorse:
http://racing.bloodhorse.com/viewstory.asp?id=33255