Bernardini IS

Ateam,
Noone hates Bernadini, and noone hated Ghostzapper.
In Zapper's case he was winning shorter races and beating SMALL fields, albeit better fields than Dini has but needed a "defining race" to show everyone how special he was and elevate him to "great" status. His BC Classic race was exactly that, he demolished and destroyed the field against his preferred running style to run an incredible figure.
Anyone who "hated" him or questioned him after that needs a straight jacket.
If Bernadini does the same thing then noone will question a thing about him either.
I think its quite fair to acknowledge Dini's immense talent yet still need to see a "defining race" out of him. Beating medocre horses or injured horses is NOT his fault. He can only beat what hes put up against. Noone with a brain is "hating" on him. Its just that need for a defining race that people wanna see.

Originally Posted by oracle80

Ateam,
Its just that need for a defining race that people wanna see.

You can put me on record as stating "you'll NEVER see one". I could care less if he beats Andromeda's Hero and that other quitter by a half mile.

If he puts away HH going 7/8th's to a mile I'll readdress my statement.

[Travis Stone]

It's laughable. If a horse dominates a division, the division is weak. If no horse dominates a division, the division is weak. What will make people happy? Horseplayers are never happy.

[kenny p]

I looked at Bernadini in the paddock the other day. While I am not an expert like most of you people he is one of the most impressive looking thouroughbreds i have ever seen. He also seems to have a real presence about him. I hope he crushes the Classic field. I have been on this forum since May and it seems to becoming a place for smallminded idiots to belittle each other. Thats a shame because its run by a real classy guy. KP

Originally Posted by kenny p

I looked at Bernadini in the paddock the other day. While I am not an expert like most of you people he is one of the most impressive looking thouroughbreds i have ever seen. He also seems to have a real presence about him. I hope he crushes the Classic field. I have been on this forum since May and it seems to becoming a place for smallminded idiots to belittle each other. Thats a shame because its run by a real classy guy. KP

Kenny P, what is your definition of smallminded idiots? If its anyone who won't annoint Bernadini one of the greats yet, than you can add me proudly to that club of smallminded idiots.
I think everyone realizes that hes a very good horse, but some would like to see him take on those horses in the BCC and stamp himself as great before just handing that title over to him. I don't think thats at all unreasonable.

[kenny p]

Oracle .. My comment about smidiots had nothing to do with Bernadini. Its about the tone of the discussions here. Some are down right nasty. You seem to draw alot of venom with your posts( which I happen to like) ..the posts not the venom. I would like to see more talk about races than the constant sniping.KP

Originally Posted by kenny p

Oracle .. My comment about smidiots had nothing to do with Bernadini. Its about the tone of the discussions here. Some are down right nasty. You seem to draw alot of venom with your posts( which I happen to like) ..the posts not the venom. I would like to see more talk about races than the constant sniping.KP

Oh yeah well thats a very valid thing. Points and counterpoints, and opinion disagreements actually produce the most lievely and intelligent discussions though. It wouldn't be a very good place if someone posted a thought and everyone agreed.
Some folks though don't contribute a whole lot in the means of information or original thought, and spend most of their time trying to "prove" or shoot down something that others say without ever adding anything of interest. They are full time devil's advocates.
I actually think threads like last night's spat between BB and randall was awesome. I mean two guys disagreeing over the places in history of two of the finest horses ever to race, and you end up with all this info and history and stats on them that many people, especially the younger crowd, may be learning for the first time.
Give me 100 of those over the devils advocate, always after the race is over threads anyday.

[boswd]

This is what I don't get when talking about the strength of the field for the BCC. When in the history of the Breeders Cup, when has there ever been a top to bottom top level all multiple Grade I winners? When? It usually includes three maybe four horses that have won the major races in the year and the rest filled up with some Gr II and GrIII horses.
How is this year any different. You are going to have Lava Man, who has won everything on the West Coast, Invasor up until last Saturday has been winning everything on the East Coast, and Bernardini who has been winning everything thrown at him. How is this going to be so weak and what makes this soo different than any other year? I could be way off base but if anyone can show that in such and such a year the Classic had 9 multple GI winners but I don't think you can find one.
IMO this is one of the most anticpated BCC that I can remember. Three horses fianlly all going to meet to decide HOTY and each of the three are very accomplished.

Originally Posted by boswd

This is what I don't get when talking about the strength of the field for the BCC. When in the history of the Breeders Cup, when has there ever been a top to bottom top level all multiple Grade I winners? When? It usually includes three maybe four horses that have won the major races in the year and the rest filled up with some Gr II and GrIII horses.
How is this year any different. You are going to have Lava Man, who has won everything on the West Coast, Invasor up until last Saturday has been winning everything on the East Coast, and Bernardini who has been winning everything thrown at him. How is this going to be so weak and what makes this soo different than any other year? I could be way off base but if anyone can show that in such and such a year the Classic had 9 multple GI winners but I don't think you can find one.
IMO this is one of the most anticpated BCC that I can remember. Three horses fianlly all going to meet to decide HOTY and each of the three are very accomplished.

1998 my man, 1998. That was an allstar field. Maybe not all were in their best form, but it was an allstar field. 1988 wasn't too shabby either.

Originally Posted by boswd

This is what I don't get when talking about the strength of the field for the BCC. When in the history of the Breeders Cup, when has there ever been a top to bottom top level all multiple Grade I winners? When? It usually includes three maybe four horses that have won the major races in the year and the rest filled up with some Gr II and GrIII horses.
How is this year any different. You are going to have Lava Man, who has won everything on the West Coast, Invasor up until last Saturday has been winning everything on the East Coast, and Bernardini who has been winning everything thrown at him. How is this going to be so weak and what makes this soo different than any other year? I could be way off base but if anyone can show that in such and such a year the Classic had 9 multple GI winners but I don't think you can find one.
IMO this is one of the most anticpated BCC that I can remember. Three horses fianlly all going to meet to decide HOTY and each of the three are very accomplished.

2000 was a hell of a field.

Originally Posted by Travis Stone

It's laughable. If a horse dominates a division, the division is weak. If no horse dominates a division, the division is weak. What will make people happy? Horseplayers are never happy.

Black and white statements like yours are ridiculous. Stick to race calling.

[Cajungator26]

Originally Posted by Pillow Pants

Black and white statements like yours are ridiculous. Stick to race calling.

What was wrong with his statement? I thought it was pretty accurate...

Originally Posted by Cajungator26

What was wrong with his statement? I thought it was pretty accurate...

He made a black or white statement. There is a grey area and that's where Bernardini lives for right now.

If Invasor doesn't run in the BCC it will arguably be one of the weakest classic fields yet. Outside of Lava Man and Bernardini, there are nothing but a bunch of bridesmaids.

Horse racing is just like any other sport. Teams and individuals are always compared to past champions and there are certain accomplishments that have to be met before the masses concede their greatness.

And really all of the doubters are speaking up because the Bernardini goo gooism is getting ridiculous. He's a really good horse but there are many questions going into the big race that have yet to be answered.

read on drf that invasor WILL be supplemented, and will run in the bcc. that unless bern misses the bc, discreet cat will not run that day. that sucks....either/or.

[Cajungator26]

Originally Posted by Pillow Pants

He made a black or white statement. There is a grey area and that's where Bernardini lives for right now.

If Invasor doesn't run in the BCC it will arguably be one of the weakest classic fields yet. Outside of Lava Man and Bernardini, there are nothing but a bunch of bridesmaids.

Horse racing is just like any other sport. Teams and individuals are always compared to past champions and there are certain accomplishments that have to be met before the masses concede their greatness.

And really all of the doubters are speaking up because the Bernardini goo gooism is getting ridiculous. He's a really good horse but there are many questions going into the big race that have yet to be answered.

I agree with all of that, but you have to admit that some people just aren't happy any way you look at it. Personally, I think we have been blessed with a few of the most talented 3 year olds I've seen. Whether or not they've been facing subpar fields... I just don't know. I am of the same opinion of Bernardini as you... I want to see more. The reality is though... IF he beats everyone in the BCC, will he be called a fraud because the quality of the field isn't considered "great?" I think that's what Travis Stone was saying... Bern can't win for winning.

[LARHAGE]

Originally Posted by Pillow Pants

He made a black or white statement. There is a grey area and that's where Bernardini lives for right now.

If Invasor doesn't run in the BCC it will arguably be one of the weakest classic fields yet. Outside of Lava Man and Bernardini, there are nothing but a bunch of bridesmaids.

Horse racing is just like any other sport. Teams and individuals are always compared to past champions and there are certain accomplishments that have to be met before the masses concede their greatness.

And really all of the doubters are speaking up because the Bernardini goo gooism is getting ridiculous. He's a really good horse but there are many questions going into the big race that have yet to be answered.

I would be more inclined to side with the naysayers of Bernardini if he was just beating his fields or having to try real hard to get his victories, but come on people, this horse is winning these races in ridiculous ease, he looks like he's cantering down a bridle path for Gods sakes! I have had the awesome experience of seeing some great horses in my 30 plus years as a race fan. I live and breathe horses everyday of my life, I don't need to see anything else from my own two eyes to realize that this is indeed a very special horse.

It's too bad Albertrani can't put a gun to some trainers heads and make them enter against Bernardini, some people need drastic validation I guess.

Originally Posted by Travis Stone

If a horse dominates a division, the division is weak. If no horse dominates a division, the division is weak. What will make people happy? Horseplayers are never happy.

You are correct in stating that horse players in general are never happy.