Secretariat Vs. Spectacular Bid

The "official" grading of stakes races began in 1973 ... however ... in 1972 Secretariat won the five most prestigious races for 2YOS ... the Hopeful, Futurity, Champagne, Laurel Futurity, and Garden Stete ... all of which were designated as G1 races the following year.

So ... for you to say that Secretariat didn't win a G1 race as a 2YO is laughable. Either you're trying to con the chumps ... which won't get you very far on this board ... or you're a chump yourself.

Edit: Randall already has corrected this earlier error.

As 2YOS ... Secretariat was better than Spectacular Bid ... as the panel of experts who assigned the Experimental Handicap weights also concluded ... by assigning Secretariat 129 pounds for his performances ... three pounds above standard ... and Spectacular Bid 126 pounds for his ... equal to standard.

As 3YOS ... there's no comparison. Secretariat shattered all three track records in winning the Triple Crown ... two of which have not been approached after 33 years. He later set a world record and another track record ... all in G1 races at major tracks.

Spectacular Bid failed to win the Triple Crown ... never approached Secretariat's speed records in those races ... and set only two very minor track records ... one at 8.5f at Delaware Park and one at 10f at the brand new Meadowlands track ... only the second time that distance had ever been run at that track.

As a 4YO ... Spectacular Bid had one of the greatest years any American race horse has ever had ... stamping himself as a true giant.

Secretariat was retired while in perfect health ... completely sound ... and raring to run as a 4YO ... only to be prevented from doing so by the evils of socialism.

Spectacular Bid was a great race horse ... but through their 2YO and 3YO campaigns ... the only basis we have for comparison ... Secretariat was better ... much better.

[randallscott35]

Originally Posted by Bold Brooklynite

The "official" grading of stakes races began in 1973 ... however ... in 1972 Secretariat won the five most prestigious races for 2YOS ... the Hopeful, Futurity, Champagne, Laurel Futurity, and Garden Stete ... all of which were designated as G1 races the following year.

So ... for you to say that Secretariat didn't win a G1 race as a 2YO is laughable. Either you're trying to con the chumps ... which won't get you very far on this board ... or you're a chump yourself.

As 2YOS ... Secretariat was better than Spectacular Bid ... as the panel of experts who assigned the Experimental Handicap weights also concluded ... by assigning Secretariat 129 pounds for his performances ... three pounds above standard ... and Spectacular Bid 126 pounds for his ... equal to standard.

As 3YOS ... there's no comparison. Secretariat shattered all three track records in winning the Triple Crown ... two of which have not been approached after 33 years. He later set a world record and another track record ... all in G1 races at major tracks.

Spectacular Bid failed to win the Triple Crown ... never approached Secretariat's speed records in those races ... and set only two very minor track records ... one at 8.5f at Delaware Park and one at 10f at the brand new Meadowlands track ... only the second time that distance had ever been run at that track.

As a 4YO ... Spectacular Bid had one of the greatest years any American race horse has ever had ... stamping himself as a true giant.

Secretariat was retired while in perfect health ... completely sound ... and raring to run as a 4YO ... only to be prevented from doing so by the evils of socialism.

Spectacular Bid was a great race horse ... but through their 2YO and 3YO campaigns ... the only basis we have for comparison ... Secretariat was better ... much better.

Apparently you missed the two times in the thread already where I conceded my grading error on the 2 yr olds. An oversight for someone who wasn't born till Bid was a 3 yr old....Am I still silly, not an ounce worth of praise. All you wanted was a justification. What a phony you are.

Originally Posted by randallscott35

Apparently you missed the two times in the thread already where I conceded my grading error on the 2 yr olds. An oversight for someone who wasn't born till Bid was a 3 yr old....Am I still silly, not an ounce worth of praise. All you wanted was a justification. What a phony you are.

Your correction of your error occurred while I was composing my post. I didn't see it until after my post was up.

I'll go back and edit my post if that will make you less disagreeable.

Meanwhile ... you haven't addressed any of the points I made.

[randallscott35]

Originally Posted by Bold Brooklynite

Your correction of your error occurred while I was composing my post. I didn't see it until after my post was up.

I'll go back and edit my post if that will make you less disagreeable.

Meanwhile ... you haven't addressed any of the points I made.

What points? You simply put more emphasis on 3 yr old season than the totality of a career. Bid did more and I think top to bottom was a better horse. I'm not trying to convince you--for the 100th time. You asked for a justification of it. You got it.

Originally Posted by randallscott35

What points? You simply put more emphasis on 3 yr old season than the totality of a career. Bid did more and I think top to bottom was a better horse. I'm not trying to convince you--for the 100th time. You asked for a justification of it. You got it.

The question isn't who "did more" ... it's who was "better." In your signature line ... you say Spectacular Bid was "better" ... and you can't substantiate that.

Spectacular Bid ran for three full years and started 30 times ... and had his best year as a 4YO ... as many great race horses have. 4YOS are usually much more mature and accomplished than 3YOS ... professionals compared to college boys. 5YOS and 6YOS are even better ... but great entire male horses never get to run at those ages.

Secretariat raced only two years and started 21 times. But his failure to race as a 4YO wasn't his ... he was completely sound when he retired.

The only legitimate comparison which can be made is as 2YOS and 3YOS ... and Secretariat was clearly "better." Why can't you just be satisfied with claiming ... possibly correctly ... that Spectacular Bid was the best 4YO ever?

[randallscott35]

Originally Posted by Bold Brooklynite

The question isn't who "did more" ... it's who was "better." In your signature line ... you say Spectacular Bid was "better" ... and you can't substantiate that.

Spectacular Bid ran for three full years and started 30 times ... and had his best year as a 4YO ... as many great race horses have. 4YOS are usually much more mature and accomplished than 3YOS ... professionals compared to college boys. 5YOS and 6YOS are even better ... but great entire male horses never get to run at those ages.

Secretariat raced only two years and started 21 times. But his failure to race as a 4YO wasn't his ... he was completely sound when he retired.

The only legitimate comparison which can be made is as 2YOS and 3YOS ... and Secretariat was clearly "better." Why can't you just be satisfied with claiming ... possibly correctly ... that Spectacular Bid was the best 4YO ever?

B/c I believe if they raced at 4 (Sec completely sound, yes) that Bid would've beat him 3 out of 5 times or better. Gut feeling, but in the other thread you acted like I was completely out of line. At least now you seem to have it together a bit.

Originally Posted by randallscott35

At least now you seem to have it together a bit.

Could it be the other way around?

Originally Posted by randallscott35

B/c I believe if they raced at 4 (Sec completely sound, yes) that Bid would've beat him 3 out of 5 times or better. Gut feeling

As I've posted many times ... coulda/shoulda/woulda doesn't count ... we can only go by actual races.

All we can say for sure ... is that in the two common years that they raced ... 2YO and 3YO ... Secretariat was better ... AND ... Spectacular Bid as a 4YO had one of the best campaigns ... possibly the best ... that any American race horse has ever had.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Bold Brooklynite

The question isn't who "did more" ... it's who was "better." In your signature line ... you say Spectacular Bid was "better" ... and you can't substantiate that.

Spectacular Bid ran for three full years and started 30 times ... and had his best year as a 4YO ... as many great race horses have. 4YOS are usually much more mature and accomplished than 3YOS ... professionals compared to college boys. 5YOS and 6YOS are even better ... but great entire male horses never get to run at those ages.

Secretariat raced only two years and started 21 times. But his failure to race as a 4YO wasn't his ... he was completely sound when he retired.

The only legitimate comparison which can be made is as 2YOS and 3YOS ... and Secretariat was clearly "better." Why can't you just be satisfied with claiming ... possibly correctly ... that Spectacular Bid was the best 4YO ever?

never know...secretariat may have pulled a flower alley at four.

[randallscott35]

Originally Posted by Danzig188

never know...secretariat may have pulled a flower alley at four.

LOL, yep. That's why they run.

Originally Posted by Danzig188

never know...secretariat may have pulled a flower alley at four.

Or he may have gotten even better ...

... I'll find out when I get to heaven ... don't know what'll happen with you.