Don't Look Amateurish By Falling Into The 4YO vs 3YO Trap

[Sightseek]

Originally Posted by Bold Brooklynite

I posted this message on another thread ... but I also feel it's worthy of a thread of its own ...

People ... people ... people ...

... please don't fall into the amateurish trap of comparing performances by 4YOS to performances by 3YOS.

All these folks who use the great races of Spectacular Bid or Seattle Slew or Dr. Fager as yardsticks for comparisons to Secretariat or Bernardini ... are falling into that silly trap.

None of those three great horses did anything extraordinary as 3YOS ... all of their mindblowing races came as 4YOS.

The 3YO Bernardini is every bit as good ... or in fact much better ... than the 3YO Spectacular Bid, Seattle Slew, or Dr. Fager.

The 3YO Secretariat blew the wheels off any horse of any age. Only the evil doings of worldwide socialism prevented us from seeing even more sensational performances from him as a 4YO.

Please ... don't make fools of yourselves by posting such nonsense again.

I do believe you've gone Goo-Goo....I love it!
Bernardini is amazing.........

Originally Posted by Sightseek

I do believe you've gone Goo-Goo....I love it!
Bernardini is amazing.........

Hey sister ...

... you were a regular on the "other" forum ...

... so you know darn well that I was the first person on this planet ... back on March 7 ... to publicly state that Bernardini was a special colt and the most talented 3YO in the country.

Me ... a Bernardini goo-goo? Hey ... I INVENTED Bernardini goo-gooism ... you and the rest ... as always ... merely attempt to flounder in my abundant wake.

[Kasept]

Bobo,

I don't necessarily understand the point...

There doesn't seem to be any reason NOT to compare Bernardini's exploits so far to Dr. Fager's (at three), or how about Damascus'? Actually, a horse at three he resembles a bit in terms of accomplishment might be Conquistador Cielo.

Why can't comparisons be made through the respective career arcs?

Originally Posted by Kasept

Bobo,

I don't necessarily understand the point...

There doesn't seem to be any reason NOT to compare Bernardini's exploits so far to Dr. Fager's (at three), or how about Damascus'? Actually, a horse at three he resembles a bit in terms of accomplishment might be Conquistador Cielo.

Why can't comparisons be made through the respective career arcs?

When posters compare Bernardini to say, Spectacular Bid ... they really have the 4YO campaign of Spectacular Bid in mind ... in which he blasted track records to pieces and destroyed his competition.

Spectacular Bid was a great 3YO champion .... but he didn't set the world on fire then. Bernardini's 3YO campaign ... especially if he wins the BC Classic ... is at least as good ... if not better than ... Spectacular Bid's 3YO campaign ...

... and just as good or better than other great 3YOS ... like Damascus, Sword Dancer, Art And Letters, Buckpasser, Kelso, Bold Ruler, Seattle Slew, Affirmed, etc. ...

... as good or better than everyone other than Secretariat, Citation, and Man O' War.

There have been 4YOS who had better records than Bernardini has this year ... but that's a false comparison. Let's wait to see what Bernardini does as a 4YO ... God/Allah and the Sheikh willing ... before making those comparisions.

P.S. The best comparison to 3YO Bernardini would be Kelso ... a late-starting 3YO who swept everything in sight ... including defeating older horses ... in the Fall.

Originally Posted by Bold Brooklynite

When posters compare Bernardini to say, Spectacular Bid ... they really have the 4YO campaign of Spectacular Bid in mind ... in which he blasted track records to pieces and destroyed his competition.

Spectacular Bid was a great 3YO champion .... but he didn't set the world on fire then. Bernardini's 3YO campaign ... especially if he wins the BC Classic ... is at least as good ... if not better than ... Spectacular Bid's 3YO campaign ...

... and just as good or better than other great 3YOS ... like Damascus, Sword Dancer, Art And Letters, Buckpasser, Kelso, Bold Ruler, Seattle Slew, Affirmed, etc. ...

... as good or better than everyone other than Secretariat, Citation, and Man O' War.

There have been 4YOS who had better records than Bernardini has this year ... but that's a false comparison. Let's wait to see what Bernardini does as a 4YO ... God/Allah and the Sheikh willing ... before making those comparisions.

P.S. The best comparison to 3YO Bernardini would be Kelso ... a late-starting 3YO who swept everything in sight ... including defeating older horses ... in the Fall.

I love you. You introduced me to Bernie(I played him way back in the Preakness, since he is a Slew, too.). There are forums besides this making that unfair stretch of comparing this magnificent three-year-old to the older Ghostzapper!

citation beat the older and reigning horse of the year before he left florida--it was in february i believe, and months before 'big cy' won the triple crown. they don't make them like they used to!!
as for secretariat, he lost two of his three races against older. that's blowing wheels off???
seattle slew continued his unbeaten streak into and through the triple crown. bern lost his first start. i'll take the unbeaten tc winner, thanks very much.

Originally Posted by Danzig2

citation beat the older and reigning horse of the year before he left florida--it was in february i believe, and months before 'big cy' won the triple crown. they don't make them like they used to!!
as for secretariat, he lost two of his three races against older. that's blowing wheels off???
seattle slew continued his unbeaten streak into and through the triple crown. bern lost his first start. i'll take the unbeaten tc winner, thanks very much.

Slew is my favorite, period. His two grandsons look pretty good from where I sit, however.

[Danzig]

love, LOVE seattle slew. now that was a horse! my first breyer i bought was him. have a pic of him grazing by his monument at three chimneys hanging on my office wall.

Saying that Secretariat would have been syndicated for 40 million if he raced as a 4yo is the most absurd statement I have read on this forum. BBB

Originally Posted by Danzig2

as for secretariat, he lost two of his three races against older. that's blowing wheels off???
seattle slew continued his unbeaten streak into and through the triple crown. bern lost his first start. i'll take the unbeaten tc winner, thanks very much.

Secretariat won three of five starts against older horses ... easily defeating three older Eclipse Award winners ... Riva Ridge, Key To The Mint, and Cougar ... and one Canadian Horse Of The Year ... Kennedy Road.

Seattle Slew was undefeated in six starts as a 3YO through the Triple Crown ... but he started one more time ... against other 3YOS ... and finished fourth beaten by 16 lengths.

Overall ... I'd give a higher rating to a 3YO (Bernardini) who finishes second in his first race ... and then romps off in his next six starts ... including two against the best older horses available (soon to happen) ...

... than a 3YO (Seattle Slew) who wins his first six starts and then gets a drubbing in his seventh ... never having faced an older horse.

Wouldn't you?

[Danzig]

i read recently he lost two of three....guess i'll have to go back to my t'bred legends book.
slew should never have run in the swaps, something the owners just couldn't get thru their heads. duh. than he laid out, and then slew almost died from colitis x. still managed to come back at four for one heck of a campaign. three years a champ. i'll take his three stunning seasons right now. and of course we all KNOW how that story ended. bernie is still writing his. check back with me when he's got FIN on his last page.

[Cajungator26]

Originally Posted by Bold Brooklynite

Secretariat won three of five starts against older horses ... easily defeating three older Eclipse Award winners ... Riva Ridge, Key To The Mint, and Cougar ... and one Canadian Horse Of The Year ... Kennedy Road.

Seattle Slew was undefeated in six starts as a 3YO through the Triple Crown ... but he started one more time ... against other 3YOS ... and finished fourth beaten by 16 lengths.

Overall ... I'd give a higher rating to a 3YO (Bernardini) who finishes second in his first race ... and then romps off in his next six starts ... including two against the best older horses available (soon to happen) ...

... than a 3YO (Seattle Slew) who wins his first six starts and then gets a drubbing in his seventh ... never having faced an older horse.

Wouldn't you?

Bernardini was off the board in his first start.

[Seattleallstar]

theres another forum?