Obama's support for Ground Zero Mosque

[Honu]

Originally Posted by hi_im_god

http://jcch.com/

google map the address.

they probably would have wanted to put the f'in slants in internment camps. again.

hey! i've got a great idea! let's repeat this over and over again!

But they didnt build the fn thing 10 years after they bombed the crap out of us.
The Hawaiians are a pretty forgiving folk the military people who were there who survived maybe not so much. I think had the U.S not had a base there and was able to keep the Japanese from taking over the island the Hawaiians might have had just a lil diffirent view. Had the Japanese conqured the island and did to the Hawaiian people what they did to the other islands they captured maybe the locals would have a diffirent outlook.

[hi_im_god]

Originally Posted by Honu

But they didnt build the fn thing 10 years after they bombed the crap out of us.
The Hawaiians are a pretty forgiving folk the military people who were there who survived maybe not so much. I think had the U.S not had a base there and was able to keep the Japanese from taking over the island the Hawaiians might have had just a lil diffirent view. Had the Japanese conqured the island and did to the Hawaiian people what they did to the other islands they captured maybe the locals would have a diffirent outlook.

i think the problem is you're conflating an act of war by a foreign government with an act of terrorism by people who were muslim.

there is no united states of islam that attacked us.

confusing the two doesn't serve any national goal. it serves a narrow political purpose for one party over the next few months.

[Honu]

Originally Posted by hi_im_god

i think the problem is you're conflating an act of war by a foreign government with an act of terrorism by people who were muslim.

there is no united states of islam that attacked us.

confusing the two doesn't serve any national goal. it serves a narrow political purpose for one party over the next few months.

But the terrorists have declared war on "us" just because they dont all reside in one country doesnt mean that it isnt a combined effort. Just like Im sure not all the Japanese people wanted to have a war with America but the loudest and proudest did. So when the Taliban was in control of the government of Afghanastan and sent out its recruits to commit Jihad against the infidels that wasnt a sort of "government " act?
Anyway, I just think that the American Islamic community should be just a little more sensitive to the people of New York and how close to the surface this still is for them. Yes they have a right to do whatever they want to do but if they were really trying to bridge a gap between how they are and how people percieve Muslims then they would say" hey you know what, we feel you New Yorkers and we will move our cultural center somewhere else".
Instead they are pushing forward with something that is causing protests and arguments and think its just fine. They need to set an expmple of the religion of peace by making some and putting their building somewhere else.

[hi_im_god]

Originally Posted by Honu

But the terrorists have declared war on "us" just because they dont all reside in one country doesnt mean that it isnt a combined effort. Just like Im sure not all the Japanese people wanted to have a war with America but the loudest and proudest did. So when the Taliban was in control of the government of Afghanastan and sent out its recruits to commit Jihad against the infidels that wasnt a sort of "government " act?
Anyway, I just think that the American Islamic community should be just a little more sensitive to the people of New York and how close to the surface this still is for them. Yes they have a right to do whatever they want to do but if they were really trying to bridge a gap between how they are and how people percieve Muslims then they would say" hey you know what, we feel you New Yorkers and we will move our cultural center somewhere else".
Instead they are pushing forward with something that is causing protests and arguments and think its just fine. They need to set an expmple of the religion of peace by making some and putting their building somewhere else.

if we're going to successful in the struggle against religious extremism, we need to educate ourselves enough that we can distinguish between terrorists and muslims.

some muslims are going to be terrorists. a lot of terrorists are going to be muslim. i get all that.

but i think the united states vs. muslims is a much tougher fight than the united states vs. terrorists and i just hope we don't waste so much time jerking off over what serves narrow short term political gain that we lose sight of what actually matters for our long term benefit.

sufis are the unitarians of the the islamic world. if we don't have them on our side, we've taken on a much tougher fight than needed.

[Honu]

Originally Posted by hi_im_god

if we're going to successful in the struggle against religious extremism, we need to educate ourselves enough that we can distinguish between terrorists and muslims.

some muslims are going to be terrorists. a lot of terrorists are going to be muslim. i get all that.

but i think the united states vs. muslims is a much tougher fight than the united states vs. terrorists and i just hope we don't waste so much time jerking off over what serves narrow short term political gain that we lose sight of what actually matters for our long term benefit.

sufis are the unitarians of the the islamic world. if we don't have them on our side, we've taken on a much tougher fight than needed.

If they dont see the trouble and hurt that they are causing then how can they expect to have people on their side.

[hi_im_god]

Originally Posted by Honu

If they dont see the trouble and hurt that they are causing then how can they expect to have people on their side.

ditto. just take a larger world view.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Honu

If they dont see the trouble and hurt that they are causing then how can they expect to have people on their side.

an incredibly insightful post. one of your best ever. now, just apply that to your point of view, try it on for size. it works both ways.

[brianwspencer]

Originally Posted by Danzig

an incredibly insightful post. one of your best ever. now, just apply that to your point of view, try it on for size. it works both ways.

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Originally Posted by Danzig

an incredibly insightful post. one of your best ever. now, just apply that to your point of view, try it on for size. it works both ways.

They're the ones that choose to participate in a "religion" that encourages killing members that want to leave. They're the ones that participate in a "religion" that calls for either killing non-muslims, or taxing them for not being Muslim. Stuff like this could be why Honu is upset about this, and not about Buddhists, and Hindus.

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Originally Posted by hi_im_god

if we're going to successful in the struggle against religious extremism, we need to educate ourselves enough that we can distinguish between terrorists and muslims.

some muslims are going to be terrorists. a lot of terrorists are going to be muslim. i get all that.

but i think the united states vs. muslims is a much tougher fight than the united states vs. terrorists and i just hope we don't waste so much time jerking off over what serves narrow short term political gain that we lose sight of what actually matters for our long term benefit.

sufis are the unitarians of the the islamic world. if we don't have them on our side, we've taken on a much tougher fight than needed.

You do realize that the guy who shot up the Army in Texas wasn't a career terrorist. The guy who left a bomb in Manhattan (this last year) was also not a career terrorist. There is a risk that some otherwise peaceful Moslem going to this Mosque loses it, and starts shooting tourists over at ground zero. Just like insurance companies study risk, there is a level of risk here that I think is higher with members of this religion. I think putting a Mosque that close is highly questionable in judgement. I think it'd be safer for everyone involved if they show some better judgement. The reason there is a higher risk with this religion is because their prophet encouraged them to do these things to non-Muslims. It's not because someone has done something to them. They're prophet is the problem. They can blame their ways on a lot of people, but their prophet is the cause of all of this killing.

[hi_im_god]

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER

You do realize that the guy who shot up the Army in Texas wasn't a career terrorist. The guy who left a bomb in Manhattan (this last year) was also not a career terrorist. There is a risk that some otherwise peaceful Moslem going to this Mosque loses it, and starts shooting tourists over at ground zero. Just like insurance companies study risk, there is a level of risk here that I think is higher with members of this religion. I think putting a Mosque that close is highly questionable in judgement. I think it'd be safer for everyone involved if they show some better judgement.

i disagree that either of these acts were committed by an "otherwise peaceful" muslim who lost it.

both were committed by individuals who sought out support from known terrorist organizations.

i argue that making the assumption "all muslims are potential terrorists" doesn't actually serve our security needs. it works against them. we need the majority of muslims that aren't terrorists on our side.

unless you're a republican running for office, this ridiculous mosque debate won't help.

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Originally Posted by hi_im_god

i disagree that either of these acts were committed by an "otherwise peaceful" muslim who lost it.

both were committed by individuals who sought out support from known terrorist organizations.

Yea, but most of their lives were spent being as peaceful as the moslems who would attend this Mosque. They flipped out, and bad things tend to happen to non-Moslems when Moslems flip out.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Honu

But they didnt build the fn thing 10 years after they bombed the crap out of us.
The Hawaiians are a pretty forgiving folk the military people who were there who survived maybe not so much. I think had the U.S not had a base there and was able to keep the Japanese from taking over the island the Hawaiians might have had just a lil diffirent view. Had the Japanese conqured the island and did to the Hawaiian people what they did to the other islands they captured maybe the locals would have a diffirent outlook.

i agree. no country that attacks us should be able to build a cultural center in that area. when one wants to do so, let us know.