Bernardini IS

[Pointg5]

Originally Posted by Betsy

Belmont was NOT that fast today ,not at all. Also, the middle 3 fractions were very fast - all 23 and change.

Todko, that horse was cantering and he finished in 25 and change. If he had been asked at all, he would have finished well under that time. Slow internal fractions? See above- not slow at all.

I hope you have a lot of friends who feel as you do; we may get a decent price on Bernardini in the BCC

I disagree with it not being fast, it wasn't a total speedway, but it was playing fast, HH set a stakes record in the Vosburgh and the same level Allow Optional Claimers ran the mile fraction a second slower yesterday...

When is the last time that anyone has seen an opening quarter in a non-turf race go 25? I can't remember, I am sure it's happened, but not very often, I hope that a G1 animal could run fast after catching that break. I am pretty sure you could find allowance horses that could run a mile very close to 1:36 with that kind of pace.

Like I said he's the best horse in training, but I think he's going to be in for it, once he gets competition and he has to fight off multiple moves and deal with traffic. Right now the 3 I'll use either for tri or pick 3 or 4 purposes will be Bernardini, Lava Man, and David Junior.

[TitanSooner]

Here's the facts.. Bernardini ran impressively, Lava Man ran impressively.

Period. Anybody thrashing either performance is either biased or delusional.
.
.
May the best horse win on the 4th.

[ateamstupid]

I find it hilarious that there are still Bernardini haters.

Go ahead and bet against this horse on 11/4. I would LOVE it. Give me a decent price on this monster and go home crying like a salty little girl. It would be "classic," no pun intended.

[pmayjr]

If Bernardini wins the Classic- HE'S THE BEST HORSE SINCE GHOSTZAPPER AT THE CLASSIC DIRT DISTANCES. But he's gotta win the Classic.

[Revolution]

Originally Posted by pmayjr

If Bernardini wins the Classic- HE'S THE BEST HORSE SINCE GHOSTZAPPER AT THE CLASSIC DIRT DISTANCES. But he's gotta win the Classic.

he is better than ghostzapper. this is a three year old doing this. he just has much better action and unlike ghostzapper, he races every few weeks. this horse is getting faster and he has not been asked for anything.

[Pointg5]

Originally Posted by Revolution

he is better than ghostzapper. this is a three year old doing this. he just has much better action and unlike ghostzapper, he races every few weeks.

I won't debate the action, but Bernardini has had his races spaced, he's not run every couple of weeks...

[Pointg5]

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

I find it hilarious that there are still Bernardini haters.

Go ahead and bet against this horse on 11/4. I would LOVE it. Give me a decent price on this monster and go home crying like a salty little girl. It would be "classic," no pun intended.

That's a silly comment...

I am not a Bernardini hater, I actually made a good amount of money on him in the Preakness, it was tragic, but I cashed hard on him in the Preakness. He's the best horse in training, that I have no doubt, but he's had everything his own way and very little competition. That track was fast yesterday and the opening quarter still boggles my mind, but to say that he had fast mid quarters, well I sure hope so. I don't get the lavish amount of praise put on him for not doing a whole lot right now, he's a very good horse, but he's not a Ghostzapper or Mineshaft yet. Jerry Bailey even made the comment yesterday that it looked like he had to get after Bernardini to put away WB, I didn't notice that, but imagine if he has to do that 2-3 times in the Classic, no one can really say with certainty how he'll react, that's all that I am saying. If you put a large win bet on this horse in the BCC, you are taking a risk I don't think will be worth the odds, I'll use him in exotics and hope he runs out, not likely, but I wouldn't take that kind of large win bet risk on him, because he has not proven himself in that situation...

[The Bid]

Its amazing anyone can knock Bernardini. Hes incredible in every sense of the word. As a few posters have noted, the way he moves is unreal. He floats, he doesnt even get out of a gallop for Christ sake. Im sure Javier Castellano, when its all said and done, will tell the world Ghostzapper had nothing on this horse. I mean nothing. This is the kind of horse that makes people realize what a great horse is. This is the best horse since Spectacular Bid, no question about it, how anyone cant see that blows my mind. The last few years there have been some incredible animals come along, Lost in the fog, Henny, Bernardini, Discrete Cat, if those horses dont give you goosebumps, you need to bet football.

Bernardini looks great. Not as good as Mineshaft or LITF imo. I like their running styles much more. But again... thats me.
Bottom line: The horse has not been pushed. I hope he gets his chance to show how good he is.

Reminds me of Larry Holmes in boxing except unlike Larry, he will retire early. Holmes was a great fighter but he boxed AT THE WRONG TIME. There was no one to threaten him, to bring out how good he really was. How many people even know Larry Holmes? How many people know Ali, Frazier, Foreman? The last 3 showed greatness because they were tested. And I think Holmes would be mentioned with all of them if he ever had some competition in his prime.

We may have the same thing here in horse racing. I dont trust Lava Man to run well at Churchill. I dont trust this horse when he has to travel distances. And will that be Bernardini's only competition?

If Bernardini would have gone at Churchill and the Belmont like Smarty Jones, and lost like Smarty Jones did after being doubled teamed and set up. Then I would be more impressed. At least I could say the horse got pushed to the limit and never gave in... That it took Rock Hard Ten AND Jerry Bailey's suicidal act on Eddington to defeat him. If he was absolutely weighted down (the real meaning of handicap) and have a spectacular stretch battle against a once winning Perfect Drift I could say I saw something. And the comparison made is Bernardini beat a beatup Brother Derek in the Preakness...?

But it is NOT the horse's fault that I cant annoint him. Right runner, wrong time. I hope not. But the shed calls, so I personally will never know how good the horse really is. This is really what absolutely sucks. He is gone after the BCC. So all the people who like family trees can play little games with generational charts instead of watching the greatness of an athlete on the track. "I cant wait to see his babies to... uhhhhh, have babies?", please shoot these people somebody. They destroy RACING ON A TRACK.
Just hoping the BCC shows me something more than 4 horse fields and no competition so that the animal can show us how good he really is.

What may actually have worked against this horse sadly is Barbaro's breakdown.

[kentuckyrosesinmay]

Originally Posted by pgardn

Bernardini looks great. Not as good as Mineshaft or LITF imo. I like their running styles much more. But again... thats me.
Bottom line: The horse has not been pushed. I hope he gets his chance to show how good he is.

Reminds me of Larry Holmes in boxing except unlike Larry, he will retire early. Holmes was a great fighter but he boxed AT THE WRONG TIME. There was no one to threaten him, to bring out how good he really was. How many people even know Larry Holmes? How many people know Ali, Frazier, Foreman? The last 3 showed greatness because they were tested. And I think Holmes would be mentioned with all of them if he ever had some competition in his prime.

We may have the same thing here in horse racing. I dont trust Lava Man to run well at Churchill. I dont trust this horse when he has to travel distances. And will that be Bernardini's only competition?

If Bernardini would have gone at Churchill and the Belmont like Smarty Jones, and lost like Smarty Jones did after being doubled teamed and set up. Then I would be more impressed. At least I could say the horse got pushed to the limit and never gave in... That it took Rock Hard Ten AND Jerry Bailey's suicidal act on Eddington to defeat him. If he was absolutely weighted down (the real meaning of handicap) and have a spectacular stretch battle against a once winning Perfect Drift I could say I saw something. And the comparison made is Bernardini beat a beatup Brother Derek in the Preakness...?

But it is NOT the horse's fault that I cant annoint him. Right runner, wrong time. I hope not. But the shed calls, so I personally will never know how good the horse really is. This is really what absolutely sucks. He is gone after the BCC. So all the people who like family trees can play little games with generational charts instead of watching the greatness of an athlete on the track. "I cant wait to see his babies to... uhhhhh, have babies?", please shoot these people somebody. They destroy RACING ON A TRACK.
Just hoping the BCC shows me something more than 4 horse fields and no competition so that the animal can show us how good he really is.

What may actually have worked against this horse sadly is Barbaro's breakdown.

Smarty Jones isn't even in the same league as Bernardini. Bernardini would crush Smarty Jones. Bernardini is a better mover, bigger, faster, better built, and more talented than Smarty Jones. This horse is the best horse since Spectacular Bid. If he wins the BC Classic, he will be #1 on my greatest of all time list. 3 year olds don't crush older horses like he did in the JCGC without even being hit with the whip. Wanderin Boy is no pushover. Invasor was all out to beat Wanderin Boy in the Pimlico Special and Bernardini ran by Wanderin Boy with utmost ease even though he let Wanderin Boy crawl through a 25 opening furlong. I don't need to see the horse run face to face with another horse. I know what he is. A horse that has the fire in his eyes like he does will win the battle. He will literally crush his opponent when they look him in the eye. He will turn them back and make them falter. Bernardini is one of the best moving horses that I have ever seen. In fact, he may bet the best. The competition is ducking the horse. They are afraid of him. Even Lava Man's connections said that Bernardini was scary. He is scary. There is no other way to put it. And he gets better with every race.

He probably won't be headed until he faces Discreet Cat in the Dubai World Cup next year. However, even Discreet Cat won't be a match for this horse at a mile and a quarter. The truth is that Bernardini may never get headed because he is just too good. And yes, I bank on both of them being in the Dubai World Cup if both remain healthy. I really don't think that Bernardini will retire next year.

[Betsy]

Originally Posted by Pointg5

That's a silly comment...

I am not a Bernardini hater, I actually made a good amount of money on him in the Preakness, it was tragic, but I cashed hard on him in the Preakness. He's the best horse in training, that I have no doubt, but he's had everything his own way and very little competition. That track was fast yesterday and the opening quarter still boggles my mind, but to say that he had fast mid quarters, well I sure hope so. I don't get the lavish amount of praise put on him for not doing a whole lot right now, he's a very good horse, but he's not a Ghostzapper or Mineshaft yet. Jerry Bailey even made the comment yesterday that it looked like he had to get after Bernardini to put away WB, I didn't notice that, but imagine if he has to do that 2-3 times in the Classic, no one can really say with certainty how he'll react, that's all that I am saying. If you put a large win bet on this horse in the BCC, you are taking a risk I don't think will be worth the odds, I'll use him in exotics and hope he runs out, not likely, but I wouldn't take that kind of large win bet risk on him, because he has not proven himself in that situation...

Jerry Bailey thought that Castellano had to work on Bernardini? I was at the track, and I admit that I initially thought that was true. Later, when I read the quotes, I realized that it wasn't that Bernardini had to work harder, Castellano just waited that long to ask the colt. I think Tom is quoted as saying he probably waited too long, lol. When I saw the replay, it was apparent that Bernardini moved easily past Wandering Boy - Castellano didn't have to work a bit.

[ateamstupid]

Originally Posted by Pointg5

That's a silly comment...

I am not a Bernardini hater, I actually made a good amount of money on him in the Preakness, it was tragic, but I cashed hard on him in the Preakness. He's the best horse in training, that I have no doubt, but he's had everything his own way and very little competition. That track was fast yesterday and the opening quarter still boggles my mind, but to say that he had fast mid quarters, well I sure hope so. I don't get the lavish amount of praise put on him for not doing a whole lot right now, he's a very good horse, but he's not a Ghostzapper or Mineshaft yet. Jerry Bailey even made the comment yesterday that it looked like he had to get after Bernardini to put away WB, I didn't notice that, but imagine if he has to do that 2-3 times in the Classic, no one can really say with certainty how he'll react, that's all that I am saying. If you put a large win bet on this horse in the BCC, you are taking a risk I don't think will be worth the odds, I'll use him in exotics and hope he runs out, not likely, but I wouldn't take that kind of large win bet risk on him, because he has not proven himself in that situation...

Wait, so because Jerry Bailey said it, it's true? You said yourself that you didn't notice it, but that's negated by Jerry Bailey saying it?

Let's take a look at the Equibase comment..

"BERNARDINI raced close up outside while in hand, was sent after pacesetter WANDERIN BOY midway on the second turn, collared that rival entering the stretch, quickly drew clear from that rival and galloped away under wraps."

Sounds like Javier had to work his ass off.

I'll take my own eyes and the Equibase people over anything Jerry Bailey says any day of the week.

If you want to say he beat nobody, that's fine. That's valid. But don't say he had to work hard to do it. That's just inaccurate.

[Betsy]

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

Wait, so because Jerry Bailey said it, it's true? You said yourself that you didn't notice it, but that's negated by Jerry Bailey saying it?

Let's take a look at the Equibase comment..

"BERNARDINI raced close up outside while in hand, was sent after pacesetter WANDERIN BOY midway on the second turn, collared that rival entering the stretch, quickly drew clear from that rival and galloped away under wraps."

Sounds like Javier had to work his ass off.

I'll take my own eyes and the Equibase people over anything Jerry Bailey says any day of the week.

If you want to say he beat nobody, that's fine. That's valid. But don't say he had to work hard to do it. That's just inaccurate.

And JC is quoted as saying that he had a ton of horse.......Prado is quoted as saying that Bernardini had him at any time. The only reason it looked like Bernardini (if indeed it looked it at all) was working is because Javier didn't ask him unti relatively late in the race (for him). He's riding Bernardini brilliantly - I love his quote about how he wanted to get his colt ready for the Classic, when there will be more pace. I prefer Bernardini running at a target - yesterday was a good race for him in that regard.

[Pointg5]

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

Wait, so because Jerry Bailey said it, it's true? You said yourself that you didn't notice it, but that's negated by Jerry Bailey saying it?

Let's take a look at the Equibase comment..

"BERNARDINI raced close up outside while in hand, was sent after pacesetter WANDERIN BOY midway on the second turn, collared that rival entering the stretch, quickly drew clear from that rival and galloped away under wraps."

Sounds like Javier had to work his ass off.

I'll take my own eyes and the Equibase people over anything Jerry Bailey says any day of the week.

If you want to say he beat nobody, that's fine. That's valid. But don't say he had to work hard to do it. That's just inaccurate.

At no point was Bernardini ever in trouble of getting past WB, that was a forgone conclusion before they entered the gate, he's going to have more traffic and better horses to deal with in the BC, but he'll probably win anyway, he's good and there's not much that can beat him, other than Lava Man and David Junior and I am not sure they will be able to do it....My point is that everyone says he does things so easily, well he's very talented and he hasn't faced much, what happens when he's hooked, will he fold or show his class, at very low odds in the BC, I'll use him on top in exotics and p3's and p4's and hope he runs 2nd, but I would never make a large win bet on him, you can still make decent money in the BC even with heavy favorites. ...I had him at the best price, that was long before all of this insanity has gone on. He's very good and could be great, but I think people have short memories, what about a horse like GZ, Smarty Jones. What about Silver Charm, he only was a graded stake winner at 2,3,4, and 5 won the KY Derby, Preakness, Dubai World Cup. He ran a faster speed figure than Bernardini did and certainly against better competition.

[Pointg5]

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

I find it hilarious that there are still Bernardini haters.

Go ahead and bet against this horse on 11/4. I would LOVE it. Give me a decent price on this monster and go home crying like a salty little girl. It would be "classic," no pun intended.

I wonder who the salty little girl is now, sorry couldn't resist...

Originally Posted by Pointg5

HH set a stakes record in the Vosburgh.

The Vosburgh has traditionally been run at 7f. I'm not sure how many times it's been run at 6f ... but it's not a lot ... so the stakes record is not that meaningful.

In 1957 Bold Ruler ran the first 6f just as fast as Henny Hughes did yesterday ... and Bold Ruler still had another furlong to go.

Henny Hughes ... like Bold Ruler ... is a very fast horse who makes the track look faster than it is.

My horse Bernardini ... my horse, not anyone else's ... runs so effortlessly that his final times are really amazingly fast ... given the minimal effort that he exerts to achieve them.

Yes ... it would be nice to see him face better competition ... and hopefully Invasor and Lava Man will provide some. But after he destroys them in the BC Classic ... all we'll hear is that Bernardini beat a former claimer who can't run outside of California ... and a South American horse who can't even speak English.