St. Trinians out till at least November

[CSC]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

You need to be locked in a room and forced to watch ten thousand races.

The final margin was just a head. You make it sound like Zenyatta won by 3

Something as simple as a clean break by St. Trinians would have made the difference. Saving some ground into the 1st turn would have also helped.

Rosario's ROI is what it is because he rarely loses when he's on the horse who runs the better race .. and he steals a few wins here and there in races where he's not on the best horse.

Garcia is just your average top circuit jockey. Other than the very poor start and going 5 wide on the 1st turn while starting from post 2 - and getting hung up 4 to 5 wide the entire way around the far turn ... he did absolutely nothing wrong. Picture perfect.

Going 'maybe' 4 wide into the 1st turn did not cost her the race, you cannot be saying this with a straight face, furthermore didn't Zenyatta break a little tardy last year in the BC Classic? One is used as an excuse, the other is not. Be consistent atleast, there are some that actually hang on every word you say here afterall.

[Danzig]

how would a tardy break at all hinder zenyatta? i think the break would have differing affects when you consider a horses running style. it never seemed to hurt evening attire, who could never be accused of being a good breaker. but a bad break was considered to have been very costly to war emblem in the belmont, just to use as an example.

[CSC]

Originally Posted by Danzig

how would a tardy break at all hinder zenyatta? i think the break would have differing affects when you consider a horses running style. it never seemed to hurt evening attire, who could never be accused of being a good breaker. but a bad break was considered to have been very costly to war emblem in the belmont, just to use as an example.

Ask I DrugS, it seemed to hinder a closer like St. Trinians. I know both are not identical as Z is a deeper closer, but it isn't like ST is the reincarnation of War Emblem either.

[Danzig]

i know she's no war emblem, i said it was an example. i guess i will have to go elsewhere for help, you seem to be more interested in polemics than instruction anyway.

[CSC]

Originally Posted by Danzig

i know she's no war emblem, i said it was an example. i guess i will have to go elsewhere for help, you seem to be more interested in polemics than instruction anyway.

Eristic would suffice, I hate big words.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by CSC

Eristic would suffice, I hate big words.

i will keep that in mind in the future, thanks.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by CSC

a closer like St. Trinians.

St. Trinians has very good natural speed ... she was pressing the pace from about a neck back going 7fs in an alw sprint she won by 7 lengths in her 2nd start in America.

That's why she was supposed to be a big match-up problem for Zenyatta ... because, unlike a Life Is Sweet .. she could get early separation and a nice big cushion on Zenyatta .. and unlike an Anabaa's Creation, she can finish hard.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by CSC

Going 'maybe' 4 wide into the 1st turn did not cost her the race, you cannot be saying this with a straight face, furthermore didn't Zenyatta break a little tardy last year in the BC Classic? One is used as an excuse, the other is not. Be consistent atleast, there are some that actually hang on every word you say here afterall.

Zenyatta is a big lumbering closer who often breaks a bit tardy. That's different from breaking into the side of the gate and stumbling.

As for the difference between racing on the rail through the 1st turn and racing 4 wide the entire way around the 1st turn .... here's the Hollywood Gold Cup. Watch where Awesome Gem is in the first turn - and watch where Rail Trip.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3B1DnIXRok4

But hey, the Hollywood Gold Cup only proves that Bejarano rode a perfect race on Rail Trip... after all, he had him "in a position to win" and that is "a tribute to the jockey"

[the_fat_man]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

As for the difference between racing on the rail through the 1st turn and racing 4 wide the entire way around the 1st turn .... here's the Hollywood Gold Cup. Watch where Awesome Gem is in the first turn - and watch where Rail Trip.

Thanks for pointing out the banal. But you got this all wrong. If you go to CJ's site, you'll see that Rail Trip was very very vulnerable in the Gold Cup. He 'figured' to lose.

ha ha ha

[CSC]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

Zenyatta is a big lumbering closer who often breaks a bit tardy. That's different from breaking into the side of the gate and stumbling.

As for the difference between racing on the rail through the 1st turn and racing 4 wide the entire way around the 1st turn .... here's the Hollywood Gold Cup. Watch where Awesome Gem is in the first turn - and watch where Rail Trip.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3B1DnIXRok4

But hey, the Hollywood Gold Cup only proves that Bejarano rode a perfect race on Rail Trip... after all, he had him "in a position to win" and that is "a tribute to the jockey"

Rail Trip is overrated, I stated that many times here. Comparing his style to St. Trinians is bad, you know well they have opposing styles, regardless he still should be good enough to beat Awesome Gem, a horse that clunked up in last year's classic mind you. The problem here is if Garcia took a gamble and went towards the rail, and let's say the trip parted like the red sea for him, how is she going to outrun Zenyatta the final 1/8th to 1/4 mile, just how many horses have done that in their career, the only chance she had was to get the jump on her, pinch a break and hold her off. That's what she did and against another horse, 99/100 she would have won the race.

[brianwspencer]

Originally Posted by CSC

Rail Trip is overrated, I stated that many times here. Comparing his style to St. Trinians is bad, you know well they have opposing styles

Missing the point award.

[CSC]

Originally Posted by brianwspencer

11.60 final 1/8th, I may be off by .001 using straight memory from work. Missing the point award.

FIFY.

[brianwspencer]

Originally Posted by CSC

FIFY.

Fail.

[CSC]

Originally Posted by brianwspencer

Fail.

Take it up with Crist then, that number came straight from his blog.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by CSC

The problem here is if Garcia took a gamble and went towards the rail,

He started from friggen post #2 ... how is going to the rail and saving ground on the 1st turn a big gamble? - if he wanted to try to go Calvin Borel and come up the rail on the 2nd turn - that might have been a gamble.

Here's an example of St. Trinians good gate speed:



This is the race where she beat Life is Sweet. She is on the lead 12 jumps into the race. The same point in the race where she was trailing the entire field including Zenyatta after breaking into the side of the gate and stumbling.


And - if you want to better understand how Joel Rosario has profitable ROI numbers with routers for his life - and how Garcia loses more than takeout - watch this ride Rosario gave St. Trinians in the beatdown of Life is Sweet.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=onFE1_3hSQ4

Her excellent natural speed takes her to the lead in the first few jumps. Rosario drops the anchor and gets her to rate kindly while saving all the ground through the 1st turn ... instead of looming up 4 to 5 the entire way around the far turn Rosario stays patient and keeps her poised behind a pack of four just like Zenyatta was in the '10 Vanity .. and once Rosario lets her go Life Is Sweet doesn't have a prayer in the world.

[CSC]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

He started from friggen post #2 ... how is going to the rail and saving ground on the 1st turn a big gamble? - if he wanted to try to go Calvin Borel and come up the rail on the 2nd turn - that might have been a gamble.

Here's an example of St. Trinians good gate speed:



This is the race where she beat Life is Sweet. She is on the lead 12 jumps into the race. The same point in the race where she was trailing the entire field including Zenyatta after breaking into the side of the gate and stumbling.


And - if you want to better understand how Joel Rosario has profitable ROI numbers with routers for his life - and how Garcia loses more than takeout - watch this ride Rosario gave St. Trinians in the beatdown of Life is Sweet.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=onFE1_3hSQ4

Her excellent natural speed takes her to the lead in the first few jumps. Rosario drops the anchor and gets her to rate kindly while saving all the ground through the 1st turn ... instead of looming up 4 to 5 the entire way around the far turn Rosario stays patient and keeps her poised behind a pack of four just like Zenyatta was in the '10 Vanity .. and once Rosario lets her go Life Is Sweet doesn't have a prayer in the world.

We don't know if it would have made a difference, that's the thing. It would be fine if the majority of, if not all of your posts regarding Zenyatta's races were not included with the caption of "IF". If Rosario rode instead of Garcia, If she went 1-3 wide as opposed to perhaps 4 on the 1st turn, if they rode her with more speed, which most would condede is not as effective on rubber than on dirt, btw there's a difference of running her from 1 1/16th to 1 1/8th...The whole argument is based on if's, I guess until she losses or rather IF she losses, we can invent any scenario to try to beat her. All you have accomplished in my opinion is make the case it would take a great amount of luck, a perfect trip that would make Arcaro proud, and or a perfect storm of events to defeat Zenyatta. IF that day comes, maybe you can finally bask that she may be just the best managed and or lucky horse in history. But in the world of IF, okay I will open my mind and say IF the things you said did happen, then maybe the result would have been different. I wouldn't put the house on it though.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

I feel like I'm dealing with one of those 'pretty horsey' horsey lover ladies who've never made a bet in their life.

I know CSC ... sound handicapping and all common sense go out the window when Zenyatta is involved. She just wins. It doesn't matter if she's racing 4K claimers at Thistle Downs or if she's racing against race cars in the Brickyard 500. She just wins.

If she ran against Caller One and Xtra Heat in a 2 furlong sprint race - she'd just get up. If she raced against a space shuttle to the moon - she'd grow wings and get to the moon a length in front. If she raced against the San Diego Charger cheerleaders .. she'd get up by 2 lengths in hand.

If she raced on a wet dirt track off of a layoff .. she'd win If they let her run. If she came to New York where her trainer has never won a race and has had a few favorites flop she'd win.

[CSC]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

I feel like I'm dealing with one of those 'pretty horsey' horsey lover ladies who've never made a bet in their life.

I know CSC ... sound handicapping and all common sense go out the window when Zenyatta is involved. She just wins. It doesn't matter if she's racing 4K claimers at Thistle Downs or if she's racing against race cars in the Brickyard 500. She just wins.

Obfuscatation, if this is what this conversation has come to, the ol Zenyatta so called pro faction can't think rationally. Thanks I have wasted half my day. Goodluck, alot of wasted breath on my part. Keep hoping though, there's always her next race, I hear Bailey is coming out of retirement.

[knickslions2]

Originally Posted by CSC

We don't know if it would have made a difference, that's the thing. It would be fine if the majority of, if not all of your posts regarding Zenyatta's races were not included with the caption of "IF". If Rosario rode instead of Garcia, If she went 1-3 wide as opposed to perhaps 4 on the 1st turn, if they rode her with more speed, which most would condede is not as effective on rubber than on dirt, btw there's a difference of running her from 1 1/16th to 1 1/8th...The whole argument is based on if's, I guess until she losses or rather IF she losses, we can invent any scenario to try to beat her. All you have accomplished in my opinion is make the case it would take a great amount of luck, a perfect trip that would make Arcaro proud, and or a perfect storm of events to defeat Zenyatta. IF that day comes, maybe you can finally bask that she may be just the best managed and or lucky horse in history. But in the world of IF, okay I will open my mind and say IF the things you said did happen, then maybe the result would have been different. I wouldn't put the house on it though.

The only "IF" that we could be sure of was that Trinians would have won "IF" Zenyatta didn't run.

[Indian Charlie]

Originally Posted by knickslions2

The only "IF" that we could be sure of was that Trinians would have won "IF" Zenyatta didn't run.

Or "If you two only had a brain"

Even a shared brain.