Crist: The great distaffers..

[Gaining Ground]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

WAY better than Keeper Hill!!

careerwise, sure. and banshee breeze was a hell of a lot more consistent. she always showed up as you said. im just saying when they met, a neck separated them in the cca oaks and kentucky oaks. keeper hill finished in front of her in the mother goose and spinster. behind her in the personal ensign and bc distaff.

i just dont think they were that far off of each other when keeper hill was on her game. banshee breeze was always on her game.

[Indian Charlie]

Historically speaking, Banshee Breeze and Keeper Hill were both not much.

[RockHardTen1985]

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie

Historically speaking, Banshee Breeze and Keeper Hill were both not much.

says who? you, gg and serling
??
the pps dont lie

[Indian Charlie]

Originally Posted by RockHardTen1985

says who? you, gg and serling
??
the pps dont lie

says me. i yam what i yam.

that being said, you'd need to have a better understanding of things to, well, understand why she is overrated.

for starters, most of her career was spent running against pretty mediocre fillies, high figs or not.

she also seemed to find ways to lose in the really big races she was in. Beautiful Pleasure was a really good mare, but some of these others she lost to, or struggled to beat, they left alot to be desired.

she was visually speaking, not that impressive a horse. watching her, i always felt like i was watching a plodder that was picking off tired horses that had nothing left.

i never did understand the high figs she got, as she almost always ran slow times, with slow closing fractions coming after decent to moderate paces. certainly not every time, but in the first half of her career, she screamed plodder to me.

finally, there was just this intangible quality about her that's hard to convey in a post. back in those days, i was no lover of eastern racing, but there were plenty of horses in the east that i was a big fan of. I say this, because i had the utmost confidence that she'd lose the Oaks, and both appearances in the distaff, and it had nothing to do with me being a biased fan of california racing.

the fact that a pretty mediocre keeper hill found ways to beat her also confirmed to me that she was overrated, and that her figs were fishy.

other than all that, maybe you should go watch a few races of hers.

[Indian Charlie]

By the way Joseph, did you really look at the pps for Keeper Hill?

She really wasn't that much.

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie

for starters, most of her career was spent running against pretty mediocre fillies, high figs or not.

she also seemed to find ways to lose in the really big races she was in. Beautiful Pleasure was a really good mare, but some of these others she lost to, or struggled to beat, they left alot to be desired.

she was visually speaking, not that impressive a horse. watching her, i always felt like i was watching a plodder that was picking off tired horses that had nothing left.

i never did understand the high figs she got, as she almost always ran slow times, with slow closing fractions coming after decent to moderate paces. certainly not every time, but in the first half of her career, she screamed plodder to me.

finally, there was just this intangible quality about her that's hard to convey in a post. back in those days, i was no lover of eastern racing, but there were plenty of horses in the east that i was a big fan of. I say this, because i had the utmost confidence that she'd lose the Oaks, and both appearances in the distaff, and it had nothing to do with me being a biased fan of california racing.

I'm not going to make a case for her as an all-timer or anything, but I disagree on a couple of your points. As far as the competition goes, Escena, Glitter Woman, Jersey Girl, Heritage Of Gold, Sister Act, and Manistique were all Grade 1 winners and Lu Ravi and Silent Eskimo were millionaires, so I wouldn't look too down on them.

As far as the plodder status, at least as a 3yo, I thought she had a pretty good turn of foot and certainly had stamina to go along with it. Don't really recall her 4yo races that much.

I liked her a lot in the KY Oaks. Her modest 3rd in the Ashland following a bust out win in the Bonnie Miss was a near carbon copy of the way Unbridled ran for Carl Nafzger in the Blue Grass prior to his Derby win. Unfortunately, IIRC, Jerry Bailey moved much too soon on her in the Oaks and got tagged near the line by a late running Keeper Hill (who I would label as the plodder above all else).

[Sightseek]

It's too bad Zenyatta will never get to face the monsters that Azeri had to face.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by Gaining Ground

careerwise, sure. and banshee breeze was a hell of a lot more consistent. she always showed up as you said. im just saying when they met, a neck separated them in the cca oaks and kentucky oaks. keeper hill finished in front of her in the mother goose and spinster. behind her in the personal ensign and bc distaff.

i just dont think they were that far off of each other when keeper hill was on her game. banshee breeze was always on her game.

From the summer of their 3yo filly season on ... Banshee Breeze was vastly superior in every way.

The Spinster result was all about Keeneland's track bias. Banshee Breeze was 4 wide on both turns over a rail favoring race track .. Keeper Hill slipped up the rail and I believe was rail, rail on both turns ... Frankel praising it as one of the best rides.

Keeper Hill might be a 3 time Grade 1 winner .. but I think it's a huge insult to Banshee Breeze to say they had the same ability.

[Gaining Ground]

i said banshree breeze was a better horse. she was clearly the more consistent horse and accomlished a hell of a lot more on track than keeper hill. however, when they met on the racetrack, for whatever cicumstances there wasnt a lot separating them. and at keeper hill's best, she could beat banshhe breeze and did, twice. that is what i am saying, which leads me to think banshee breeze would have little to no shot vs zenyatta or rachel alexandra.

if you said inside infromation i might agree.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by Gaining Ground

i said banshree breeze was a better horse. she was clearly the more consistent horse and accomlished a hell of a lot more on track than keeper hill. however, when they met on the racetrack, for whatever cicumstances there wasnt a lot separating them. and at keeper hill's best, she could beat banshhe breeze and did, twice. that is what i am saying, which leads me to think banshee breeze would have little to no shot vs zenyatta or rachel alexandra.

Banshee Breeze had two near-miss 2nds in the BC Distaff .. and a near-miss 2nd in the KY Oaks where, whatever you want to say about the ride she got, she just gave one away ... I certainly think if she closed the deal in those 3 races she'd be on everyones list of great females.

I've watched and analyzed Zenyatta's two Apple Blossom wins as carefully as I can ... and for the life of me I can't find ANYTHING about those two races to suggest a horse like Banshee Breeze would have little to no shot against her on dirt. Based on those two races - I'm of the oppposite opinion if anything.

Rachel Alexandra was obviously a better 3yo than BB - but I don't see anything about her 4yo form to suggest Banshee Breeze had no chance.

[CSC]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

I've watched and analyzed Zenyatta's two Apple Blossom wins as carefully as I can ... and for the life of me I can't find ANYTHING about those two races to suggest a horse like Banshee Breeze would have little to no shot against her on dirt. Based on those two races - I'm of the oppposite opinion if anything.

IMO Zenyatta is not a horse you can measure with speed figs or final times as in other horses, who knows maybe all that are in her corner are totally wrong about her, we've been hoodwinked by the campaign and Sheriff's great placement of 17 times in her career. If this BC is to be contested by Quality Road and Rachel Alexandra on dirt she will be forced to run fast from a beyer perspective to win, if she does this will answer some of the questions people have for her and if she does it may once and for all put an end to this discussion. If she succeeds what knock is there left?

[slotdirt]

I think we can all agree that if she runs in the Breeders Cup, there are some serious dirt horses in there, and wins, that she'll have to be included in the conversation as one of the greater racemares of recent times.

[hoovesupsideyourhead]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

From the summer of their 3yo filly season on ... Banshee Breeze was vastly superior in every way.

The Spinster result was all about Keeneland's track bias. Banshee Breeze was 4 wide on both turns over a rail favoring race track .. Keeper Hill slipped up the rail and I believe was rail, rail on both turns ... Frankel praising it as one of the best rides.

Keeper Hill might be a 3 time Grade 1 winner .. but I think it's a huge insult to Banshee Breeze to say they had the same ability.

ill give her this drugs she raced all over vs anyone

[philcski]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

From the summer of their 3yo filly season on ... Banshee Breeze was vastly superior in every way.

The Spinster result was all about Keeneland's track bias. Banshee Breeze was 4 wide on both turns over a rail favoring race track .. Keeper Hill slipped up the rail and I believe was rail, rail on both turns ... Frankel praising it as one of the best rides.

Keeper Hill might be a 3 time Grade 1 winner .. but I think it's a huge insult to Banshee Breeze to say they had the same ability.

The thing I remember Keeper Hill for is how she's likely the answer to a trivia question.

[Smooth Operator]

Wow … all these posts and not one mention of the most remarkable thing on Crist's list

Not only was she a champion tennis player … but Chris Evert was fast enough to earn over $600k racing against thoroughbreds.

Amazing stuff

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Smooth Operator

Wow … all these posts and not one mention of the most remarkable thing on Crist's list

Not only was she a champion tennis player … but Chris Evert was fast enough to earn over $600k racing against thoroughbreds.

Amazing stuff

If she were racing now her legion of fans would be proclaiming her better than Secretariat because she beat Miss Muskett by 50 lengths and Secretariat "only" won the Belmont by 31.