Crist: The great distaffers..

[CSC]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Uh why couldn't you compare Hank Aaron and Barry Bonds?

It's very tough to say exactly how he would have done today, players are better conditioned, workout more, use performance enhancers...ect...a clean Hank Aaron would be more in the vein of a Ken Griffey Jr. rather than a Mcguire, Sosa, or Bonds.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by CSC

It's very tough to say exactly how he would have done today, players are better conditioned, workout more, use performance enhancers...ect...a clean Hank Aaron would be more in the vein of a Ken Griffey Jr. rather than a Mcguire, Sosa, or Bonds.

They play under the same rules, on the same size fields, playing the same amount of games. They are easily compared especially when you factor their production against the players of the same years, i.e. how they performed against what the league average was for any particular year or set of years. Are players better conditioned or do they workout more? Sure but so do the pitchers that they face.

At least baseball players don't get to choose what pitchers they want to face and aren't afraid of crossing mountains. (except the Red Sox according to Gales)

[CSC]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

They play under the same rules, on the same size fields, playing the same amount of games. They are easily compared especially when you factor their production against the players of the same years, i.e. how they performed against what the league average was for any particular year or set of years. Are players better conditioned or do they workout more? Sure but so do the pitchers that they face.

At least baseball players don't get to choose what pitchers they want to face and aren't afraid of crossing mountains. (except the Red Sox according to Gales)

The game is just different Cannon, it keeps evolving, think about it Ruth was once a pitcher in addition to being an everyday player. You could never do that in today's game.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by CSC

The game is just different Cannon, it keeps evolving, think about it Ruth was once a pitcher in addition to being an everyday player. You could never do that in today's game.

Babe Ruth was a pitcher first then was a position player. He didnt do them at the same time. In 1919 he pitched for 1/2 the year before becoming a position player for good. Rick Ankiel has done the same thing albeit with much less success. Of all the sports baseball is by far the closest to the same games as the years go by.

[CSC]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Babe Ruth was a pitcher first then was a position player. He didnt do them at the same time. In 1919 he pitched for 1/2 the year before becoming a position player for good. Rick Ankiel has done the same thing albeit with much less success. Of all the sports baseball is by far the closest to the same games as the years go by.

I thought I read somewhere he was slowly converted from pitcher to outfield and may have played both at one time, regardless this is an interesting point, was Roger Clemons a better pitcher Pre-HGH or Post-HGH?

[slotdirt]

Clemens was a pretty awesome pitcher in the 80's. Whether that was performance enhanced or not is anyone's guess.

[CSC]

Originally Posted by slotdirt

Clemens was a pretty awesome pitcher in the 80's. Whether that was performance enhanced or not is anyone's guess.

He was, but he was even more awesome after he bulked up. Plus I doubt he could pitch as long as he did without the help...

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by CSC

I thought I read somewhere he was slowly converted from pitcher to outfield and may have played both at one time, regardless this is an interesting point, was Roger Clemons a better pitcher Pre-HGH or Post-HGH?

Assuming that he didnt start taking hgh before he was a Yankee, no doubt his best years were pre HGH.

[CSC]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Assuming that he didnt start taking hgh before he was a Yankee, no doubt his best years were pre HGH.

I think he was linked to a Toronto Trainer when he was with the Blue Jays, he definitely was bulkier post Boston Red Sox. The guy is also a big time azz that would rival Ben Roethlisberger.

[Indian Charlie]

Upon further review of the 2009 BCC, it appears that the field truly sucked ass.

[CSC]

Upon further, further review, all fields suck in 2009 or as conveniently argued.

[ateamstupid]

Originally Posted by CSC

Upon further, further review, all fields suck in 2009 or as conveniently argued.

The hypocrisy of this BS is mindmelting.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by HomerS

Actually in 1918 he played quite a bit of outfield in addition to starting games.

Would have been HOF pitcher.

true he appeared 70 times in non pitching games

It was rumored that in 1919 he intentionally pitched poorly on occasion because he wanted to be a full time position player while the Red Sox thought he was more valuable as a pitcher.

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by HomerS

I used to laugh when people compared Bonds to Ruth.

Ruth was HOF material as a pitcher and was outhomering teams.

and in the "dead ball" era. If Ruth was playing today he'd be as good as he was back then (or better since parks are smaller)

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Antitrust32

and in the "dead ball" era. If Ruth was playing today he'd be as good as he was back then (or better since parks are smaller)

He didnt really play in the deadball era for the most part. But he pretty much ended it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dead-ball_era

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by HomerS

I used to laugh when people compared Bonds to Ruth.

Ruth was HOF material as a pitcher and was outhomering teams.

Babe Ruth is so far the greatest player in his sport that it is laughable. His numbers dwarf his competition.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Babe Ruth is so far the greatest player in his sport that it is laughable. His numbers dwarf his competition.

Have you ever looked at him before? He's fat and doesn't appear to have any black in him.

[slotdirt]

The best part about guys like Ruth, Foxx, and in later years, Mantle, is that they went out all night, woke up the next day, and still managed to be some of the best baseball players of their eras.

Nobody beats Bobby Layne in so far as professional carousers go.

[Gaining Ground]

Originally Posted by HomerS

Maybe I am missing the obvious here. Is the argument that Zenyetta cant be considered one of the all time great mares strictly because she has run the majority of her races on synthetics? Is that really it? And that overrules all else?

no that really isnt it. it is part of the discussion i think though. im not sure how you can ignore it.

[Smooth Operator]

Cannon ... you must've backed FT for '97 HotY ... right?