Easy Goer Was Better than Sunday Silence

[smartbid09]

Originally Posted by Danzig

the main reason is sunday silence defeating easy goer three of the four times they faced each other. easy goer was one hell of a horse, that's indisputable. he was my pick to win first saturday in may. but in the derby, preakness (albeit by a very, very small margin) and in the bcc, sunday won. one loss, excusable...two, maybe. but three? 75% of the time easy goer lost. many also criticize easy goer because he was pretty much a new yorker thru and thru.

Hmm... I get what your saying. And this makes sense to me. I agree that three losses is not as excusable as 2 but still as I say in what I wrote, Easy Goer seems to have lost two thirds of the triple crown with legit reasons. If SS was that much better than Easy Goer explain to me the huge margin of victory by Easy Goer in the Belmont stakes?

If Sunday Silence was so superior how could Easy Goer lick him in the Belmont? And if the answer is "well every horse has an off day" than Easy Goer has a legit excuse to have had an Off day in the bcc.

I just feel, and I'm no expert, like those two triple crown races are 100% excusable... could be wrong. And If you look at the BCC it's not like SS dominated Easy Goer. Easy Goer caught him after the wire... I just don't see how their track record is the basis for rating their greatness'. It seems like we never really got a good chance to see which horse was better based on the conditions of their races when they met.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by smartbid09

Hmm... I get what your saying. And this makes sense to me. I agree that three losses is not as excusable as 2 but still as I say in what I wrote, Easy Goer seems to have lost two thirds of the triple crown with legit reasons. If SS was that much better than Easy Goer explain to me the huge margin of victory by Easy Goer in the Belmont stakes?

If Sunday Silence was so superior how could Easy Goer lick him in the Belmont? And if the answer is "well every horse has an off day" than Easy Goer has a legit excuse to have had an Off day in the bcc.

I just feel, and I'm no expert, like those two triple crown races are 100% excusable... could be wrong. And If you look at the BCC it's not like SS dominated Easy Goer. Easy Goer caught him after the wire... I just don't see how their track record is the basis for rating their greatness'. It seems like we never really got a good chance to see which horse was better based on the conditions of their races when they met.

did you miss where i said many thought easy goer was a new yorker thru and thru? he loved belmont, and relished the surface. he lost to sunday silence everywhere but there.

as for catching a horse after the wire, they don't give awards for that. it means nothing. and if we don't rate a horse based on his track record, what's left??

[smartbid09]

The reason I started this thread is because I'm confused. It seems Easy Goer's accomplishments outweigh Sunday Silences. Forget who beat who more times. Why not judge Easy Goer and Sunday Silence's greatness based on their body of work. I don't think the 4 times they met supplied us with the answer of who was the better horse. But who was the better horse on that day and under that days conditions. A muddy belmont and Sunday Silence wins the triple crown. A better ride/ rider in baltimore and Easy Goer beats Sunday Silence hands down. A fast track in Louisville and Easy Goer and Sunday Silence are now on a fair playing field.

Noor raced against and beat the mighty Citation 4 of the 5 times they met. But Noor, we can agree, was not the better horse just because he won more times. Why was Citation the better horse? Citation's body of work outweighs Noor's.

Judging both Sunday Silence and Easy Goer's Bodies of work you can not tell me that Sunday Silence is the better horse. Did he ever come close to Dr. Fager's world record? Did he set track records? Did he win multiple times against older horses while spotting them weight? The fact Sunday Silence beat Easy Goer, to me, seems to be an incredible accomplishment. But the fact he beat Easy Goer multiple times does not seem to warrant his greatness to be more than Easy Goers.

If it does explain to me what is so great about Sunday Silence's body of work... to me it's a great body of work but not as good as Easy's.

[letswastemoney]

Originally Posted by smartbid09

The reason I started this thread is because I'm confused. It seems Easy Goer's accomplishments outweigh Sunday Silences. Forget who beat who more times. Why not judge Easy Goer and Sunday Silence's greatness based on their body of work. I don't think the 4 times they met supplied us with the answer of who was the better horse. But who was the better horse on that day and under that days conditions. A muddy belmont and Sunday Silence wins the triple crown. A better ride/ rider in baltimore and Easy Goer beats Sunday Silence hands down. A fast track in Louisville and Easy Goer and Sunday Silence are now on a fair playing field.

Noor raced against and beat the mighty Citation 4 of the 5 times they met. But Noor, we can agree, was not the better horse just because he won more times. Why was Citation the better horse? Citation's body of work outweighs Noor's.

Judging both Sunday Silence and Easy Goer's Bodies of work you can not tell me that Sunday Silence is the better horse. Did he ever come close to Dr. Fager's world record? Did he set track records? Did he win multiple times against older horses while spotting them weight? The fact Sunday Silence beat Easy Goer, to me, seems to be an incredible accomplishment. But the fact he beat Easy Goer multiple times does not seem to warrant his greatness to be more than Easy Goers.

If it does explain to me what is so great about Sunday Silence's body of work... to me it's a great body of work but not as good as Easy's.

You are saying EG's accomplishments outweigh Sunday Silence?

The KD, Preakness, and BC Classic are widely regarded as 3 of the most important races of the year. Who cares about track records when you win those?

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by smartbid09

The reason I started this thread is because I'm confused. It seems Easy Goer's accomplishments outweigh Sunday Silences. Forget who beat who more times. Why not judge Easy Goer and Sunday Silence's greatness based on their body of work. I don't think the 4 times they met supplied us with the answer of who was the better horse. But who was the better horse on that day and under that days conditions. A muddy belmont and Sunday Silence wins the triple crown. A better ride/ rider in baltimore and Easy Goer beats Sunday Silence hands down. A fast track in Louisville and Easy Goer and Sunday Silence are now on a fair playing field.

Noor raced against and beat the mighty Citation 4 of the 5 times they met. But Noor, we can agree, was not the better horse just because he won more times. Why was Citation the better horse? Citation's body of work outweighs Noor's.

Judging both Sunday Silence and Easy Goer's Bodies of work you can not tell me that Sunday Silence is the better horse. Did he ever come close to Dr. Fager's world record? Did he set track records? Did he win multiple times against older horses while spotting them weight? The fact Sunday Silence beat Easy Goer, to me, seems to be an incredible accomplishment. But the fact he beat Easy Goer multiple times does not seem to warrant his greatness to be more than Easy Goers.

If it does explain to me what is so great about Sunday Silence's body of work... to me it's a great body of work but not as good as Easy's.

i do believe in those matchups that citation was giving quite a few pounds to his opponent. certainly can't say that about ss/eg. it's probably the main reason citation gets respect, even tho he lost those. comparing citation/noor to sunday/easy is apples vs oranges.

[gales0678]

easy goer was better , pat day cost him the preakness and the bcc

sunday silence beat him at the derby that's it peroid

[Revidere]

And there are those out there who still think Alydar was better than Affirmed.

[dean smith]

This is a great web site and I make sure to visit it everyday, but the "New York as the center of the universe" mentality does not escape it (which is fine by me -- these New York homers are pretty knowledgeable and a lot of what I know I've picked up reading their debates with each other). That being said, Easy Goer was THEIR BOY. Great pedigree, good looking, sky's-the-limit potential... he was the next Great One. The thought of Sunday Silence (from California, which takes him maybe a notch higher than your average dog in NY's eyes) being better than their boy makes any self-respecting fan with an East Coast bias vomit in his mouth a little bit. Regardless of whether Sunday Silence took three of four from Easy Goer, or three hundred of four hundred, they've both got their fans who will not back down. And that's the way it should be, really.

If they raced 100 times at different distances with random conditions, it probably would be closer to 50/50 and not 75/25 (wins for SS, that is), but we've only got what happened. Besides, looking at their racing careers, I don't see how Easy Goer was any better over the long haul. It's not like Sunday Silence was a flash in the pan while Easy Goer went on to be Horse of the Year three years running. SS won 9 or 14 with 7 major stakes wins and never finished below second. EG took 14 of 20 with 10 or 11 major wins. Hell, even in retirement, Easy Goer had some nice offspring, but Sunday Silence became the leading sire in Japan for over a decade (Deep Impact)!

Just the way I see it. Of course, a lot of people around here have forgotten more about this sport than I know, so take it for what it's worth.

[alysheba4]

Originally Posted by smartbid09

The reason I started this thread is because I'm confused. It seems Easy Goer's accomplishments outweigh Sunday Silences. Forget who beat who more times. Why not judge Easy Goer and Sunday Silence's greatness based on their body of work. I don't think the 4 times they met supplied us with the answer of who was the better horse. But who was the better horse on that day and under that days conditions. A muddy belmont and Sunday Silence wins the triple crown. A better ride/ rider in baltimore and Easy Goer beats Sunday Silence hands down. A fast track in Louisville and Easy Goer and Sunday Silence are now on a fair playing field.

Noor raced against and beat the mighty Citation 4 of the 5 times they met. But Noor, we can agree, was not the better horse just because he won more times. Why was Citation the better horse? Citation's body of work outweighs Noor's.

Judging both Sunday Silence and Easy Goer's Bodies of work you can not tell me that Sunday Silence is the better horse. Did he ever come close to Dr. Fager's world record? Did he set track records? Did he win multiple times against older horses while spotting them weight? The fact Sunday Silence beat Easy Goer, to me, seems to be an incredible accomplishment. But the fact he beat Easy Goer multiple times does not seem to warrant his greatness to be more than Easy Goers.

If it does explain to me what is so great about Sunday Silence's body of work... to me it's a great body of work but not as good as Easy's.

ur giving me a fcking headache......

[Pedigree Ann]

Originally Posted by smartbid09

If SS was that much better than Easy Goer explain to me the huge margin of victory by Easy Goer in the Belmont stakes?

If Sunday Silence was so superior how could Easy Goer lick him in the Belmont? .

The answer is that the Belmont is run at Belmont. 12f circuit. Easy Goer was a large, big-striding horse. Such horses often have to shorten stride on the turns of 8f-circuits in order to keep their balance. If they are running against inferior competition, it doesn't hurt them, but if they are running against handier horses of similar ability, they are behind the 8-ball.

A similar difference occurs in the REAL Derby at Epsom. The track is up-hill, then sharply downhill around a turn, then up-hill to the finish, with the track sloped from side-to-side (a camber, they call it) in the final stretch. Big, long-striding horses that can handle flatter tracks with easier turns often come a-cropper at Epsom.

[smartbid09]

Originally Posted by HomerS

Actually if you go by conditions of the race tracks couldnt have come up with better lab. Four different tracks. One off track. Warm days on other three.

I dont give a horse extra credit for winning by alot of lenghts

Easy Goer clearly loved wide turns

Would be first to say if they ran 4 times at Belmont, SS would have been hard pressed to win even two

Easy Goer was a homer. Was great in NY, especially at Belmont.

But to me part of greatness is taking your A game on the road. The greats always do. Alysheba did that

To win when you dont necessarily have best trip

People discount SS because of his running style. It didnt look as fast visually but was every bit as fast- as evident by his wins. He stayed out of trouble. Was more athletic. Got into his fast gear much quicker. Took EG a long time to get his motor running. When he did he was real fast also. Not denying that.

But when all is said and done when consider head to head. When consider EG five biggest races its pretty easy for me to say SS was better

Unfortunately today horses will meet once or sometimes not at all. And when one horse wins its automatically concluded that horse is better off one race. Which is again unfortunate. But unlike so many recent discussions comparing horses we can easily settle this one. Since they raced four times. That is a very fair body of work to me.

You know I'm starting to get a better sense now of why SS was considered to be a little bit better than Easy Goer...

I never thought about the whole bringing your game on the road part...

I appreciate your insight

[hi_im_god]

can you imagine anyone losing the first 2 legs of the triple crown and still running in the belmont these days?

when was the last time this happened?

[the_fat_man]

Originally Posted by hi_im_god

can you imagine anyone losing the first 2 legs of the triple crown and still running in the belmont these days?

when was the last time this happened?

Probably when it involved the 'house' horse running in the house's biggest race of the year.

[KirisClown]

Originally Posted by hi_im_god

can you imagine anyone losing the first 2 legs of the triple crown and still running in the belmont these days?

when was the last time this happened?

Flying Private

[hi_im_god]

Originally Posted by KirisClown

Flying Private

i should rephrase the question to exclude d. wayne lukas horses.

[letswastemoney]

Great horses handle sloppy tracks. They do not need to carry their preferred track condition with them.

Sunday Silence beat Easy Goer 3 times fair and square. Easy Goer cannot say the same.

[westcoastinvader]

Originally Posted by letswastemoney

Great horses handle sloppy tracks. They do not need to carry their preferred track condition with them.

Sunday Silence beat Easy Goer 3 times fair and square. Easy Goer cannot say the same.

Wow, I'm even happier I bought that Preakness Sunday Silence-Easy Goer finish line photo with autographs by Pat Valenzuela and Pat Day this week.

Stuff like this might drive the price up!

......not selling though.

It has a spot reserved on my wall above the Zenyatta 2009 Breeders Cup finish line photo autographed by Mike Smith. And below the Genuine Risk Kentucky Derby finish line photo autographed by Jacinto Vasquez.

And "back and to the left" of my "Kentucky Tavern 1986 Derby Winner 'Ferdinand' mirror."


I bet on Easy Goer in The Derby and The Preakness. But I pulled like heck for Sunday Silence and bet a little on him at Belmont as he went for The Triple Crown.

I may not have won any of my wagers, but in the spirit of Lou Gehrig I feel like a winner.

In my case, just for paying attention at the time, and making a point to be there.

[Kingturf]

One thing and one thing only....Pat "wait all" Day! Nuff said.
I think it was cool the first year at stud at Claiborne Farm they had those two great horses as stall mates.

[DaTruth]

A closer examination of Sunday Silence's body of work is in order.

While Easy Goer was spectacular in his Derby preps, as he beat up on horses like Rock Point and Diamond Donnie, Sunday Silence was facing much better horses in SoCal. Among his victims in both the Santa Anita Derby and San Felipe were Flying Continental (who went on to win the Jockey Club Gold Cup and Strub) and Music Merci (who won the Del Mar Futurity and went on to win the Illinois Derby, San Rafael and Malibu). Beaten in the Santa Anita Derby were Houston and Norfolk winner Hawkster, who would later make a name for himself on the grass.

As for the remainder of his career after the Triple Crown. Sunday Silence was not disgraced in his 3/4s of a length loss to Prized in the Swaps, as Prized would go on to win the Molson Million and BC Turf later that year. I will note that Easy Goer dusted Prized in the JCGC. Sunday Silence beat Dispersal (who won the Woodward the next year) and Easy Goer's barnmate Awe Inspiring in the Super Derby. Sunday Silence would close out his career with a head loss to Criminal Type in the Hollywood Gold Cup; finishing behind Sunday Silence that day were Opening Verse (BC Mile and Oaklawn Hcp), Ruhlman (Santa Anita Hcp), and Mi Selecto (Meadowlands Cup and Gulfstream Park Hcp).

[cakes44]

Originally Posted by hi_im_god

i should rephrase the question to exclude d. wayne lukas horses.

Hard Spun