Discreet Cat earns 115 Beyer Speed Figure

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

Not accusing them of anything but I have no idea how you can insist they are necessarily any more innocent than everyobody else ( other than your unnatural affection for them ).

When you figure out how Testimony finished six lengths behind Discreet Cat, and two lengths in front of Invasor, let me know.

That is racing, BTW....everybody knows that when the top contenders get their hearts broken by the best horse (in this case DC) they begin to really flale in the stretch when the winner is runnig away from them and their not used to losing...when there is a runaway winner of a race you OFTEN see crappy plodding-style horses come along and close to clunk-up in the exotic placings without ever seriously threatening...I believe this is because horses who are not used to losing and get their herarts and confidence shattered when they can't match strides with a horse...I see it all the time...it is actually a classic handicapping angle if you can predict a runaway winner....

Horses like Simpatico Bribon and Invasor were actuallyb trying to win the race and trying to do so from the 3/8 pole to the wire....while a horse like Testamony, who did not have to ship and was familiar and confortable with the surroundings, wasn't trying to win the race so he didn't take out of his conventional style and comfort zone....

If the best horses always finished in the order they were supposed to run this game would be extinct....By your theory, a horse like Super Frolic is better than Sun King then if the only time they ran against each other Super Frolic clearly beat him by finishing 4th when Sun King faded well back in last yera's BC Classic, right?...No....Sun King was TRYING to win the race and got caught up in an ambitious pace before getting his head handed to him by Saint Liam and Flower Alley on the far turn, while Supah Blitz enjoyed a perfect trip and picked up the pieces for 4th at 70-1 while never threatening to win the race....it happens all of the time, man....you know that...

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by Cunningham Racing

That is racing, BTW....everybody knows that when the top contenders get their hearts broken by the best horse (in this case DC) they begin to really flale in the stretch when the winner is runnig away from them and their not used to losing...when there is a runaway winner of a race you OFTEN see crappy plodding-style horses come along and close to clunk-up in the exotic placings without ever seriously threatening...I believe this is because horses who are not used to losing and get their herarts and confidence shattered when they can't match strides with a horse...I see it all the time...it is actually a classic handicapping angle if you can predict a runaway winner....

Horses like Simpatico Bribon and Invasor were actuallyb trying to win the race and trying to do so from the 3/8 pole to the wire....while a horse like Testamony, who did not have to ship and was familiar and confortable with the surroundings, wasn't trying to win the race so he didn't take out of his conventional style and comfort zone....

If the best horses always finished in the order they were supposed to run this game would be extinct....By your theory, a horse like Super Frolic is better than Sun King then if the only time they ran against each other Super Frolic clearly beat him by finishing 4th when Sun King faded well back in last yera's BC Classic, right?...No....Sun King was TRYING to win the race and got caught up in an ambitious pace before getting his head handed to him by Saint Liam and Flower Alley on the far turn, while Supah Blitz enjoyed a perfect trip and picked up the pieces for 4th at 70-1 while never threatening to win the race....it happens all of the time, man....you know that...

Don't f'n lecture me and talk down to me....especially with that kind of crap.

:

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

Don't f'n lecture me and talk down to me....especially with that kind of crap.

What

here we go with people taking things persinally again....the funny thing is that i just noticed you telling m,e I needed 'medical attention' in a post earlier in the thread...

This is when i retire from a thread...when the ridiculousness begins...Thanks for the conversation guys....see you in another thread down the road....

This is very dispaoointing it always results to more than a debate

Originally Posted by Cunningham Racing

:

What

here we go with people taking things persinally again....the funny thing is that i just noticed you telling m,e I needed 'medical attention' in a post earlier in the thread...

This is when i retire from a thread...when the ridiculousness begins...Thanks for the conversation guys....see you in another thread down the road....

This is very dispaoointing it always results to more than a debate

That's unfortunate. I always long for the overly positive pro-sheikh posts.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by Cunningham Racing

:

What

here we go with people taking things persinally again....the funny thing is that i just noticed you telling m,e I needed 'medical attention' in a post earlier in the thread...

This is when i retire from a thread...when the ridiculousness begins...Thanks for the conversation guys....see you in another thread down the road....

This is very dispaoointing it always results to more than a debate

There's a BIG difference between telling someone you think they are crazy for having an opinion and giving them a HorseRacing 101 lecture which I would say is what you did.

Oh, golly gee, you mean horses chasing sometimes don't run their best efforts, and tire from chasing a leader they can't beat and lose to an inferior horse who simply sucked up? Gee willakers...I didn't know that. Thanks for f'n clueing me in.

Come on, Joel, you can do better than that.

[kentuckyrosesinmay]

Buffy isn't here so I feel obligated...

Now, be nice...

Than don't ask me questions about how Testimony could beat a horse like Invasor if you don't want to hear the reason, got it?

You started this, Andy...everything was a fair debate until you started throwing your frequent jabs about how i kiss Godolphin's a ss and that I 'need medical attention'.... I guess I should have taken it that you were insulting my intelligence by asking me a question that would provide a handicapping 101 answer....

I expected more from a figure like you....

Originally Posted by Cunningham Racing

Than don't ask me questions about how Testimony could beat a horse like Invasor if you don't want to hear the reason, got it?

You started this, Andy...everything was a fair debate until you started throwing your frequent jabs about how i kiss Godolphin's a ss and that I 'need medical attention'.... I guess I should have taken it that you were insulting my intelligence by asking me a question that would provide a handicapping 101 answer....

I expected more from a figure like you....

Joel,
Lemme put this another way, so you can see it from someone elses point of view.
Testimony is just awful, incredibly awful. For him to run 2nd in any kind of grade one race, well, the others wouldnt have to get tired from chasing, they'd have to fall down.
The "101 lecture" as it was put, was an insult to the intelligence of anyone whose seen testimony's form in every other race hes ever run.
We all know how horses can spit the bit when they middle move or chase other horses, and how horses can suck up in a big race by saving ground and just riding the last 1/8th out to pass the dead horses.
But have you ever SEEN Testimony? Him running 2nd is in the same league with Almutawakel winning the Classic(ever see his form?!!!!).
I think its safe to say that many of us detected a long time ago that the home track horses run shockingly good races that day that they never reproduce.

I don't care, man....I'm a good-natured dude and when people repeatedly come on hear and start negative drections to the debates it gets pretty old at this point.....I don't mean to insult anybodys intelligence and he should know that by now...he asked a question ad I answered it sincerely as to what I thought happpened...I mean, hell, anybody who saw the race could see that DC was the easy winner when they straightened for home....the others were flailing and it set up for some rat to run up for a cheap placing.....

The bottomline here is that I am shocked and a little disapopointed that I was jabbed in a negative way by the person who did it...I could easily see others and it wouldn't surprise me as much....I'm not trying to be a drama queen, but everything I have written in this thread has been light-hearted and not wth any negative intentions, yet I still cannot avoid stuff like the following wrote back to me:

<<<Don't f'n lecture me and talk down to me....especially with that kind of crap.>>>

...and crap about needing medical help.....it just gets old with all of this negativity on these damn threads....

I'm just disappointed right now.....

[blackthroatedwind]

You are the biggest Godolphin cheerleader NOT on their payroll. Do you deny that? Come on! You, like me, seem to be suspicious of everyone....but somehow you have decided Godolphin runs a clean operation. You love them....it's obvious. I hate them....that's also obvious.

Now you are taking the " medical attention " comment personally? I don't think so, I think you know I was kidding around but it seems to work for your agument now.

It would be one thing to suggest that you believe Testimony sucked up because the viable competitors all tired from chasing...but to explain it to me in the manner you did seemed a little over the top. But, I will concede that I MAY have overreacted, and ask you....how come Testimony wasn't able to suck up one bit in either of his US races...both of which had contentious paces?

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

You are the biggest Godolphin cheerleader NOT on their payroll. Do you deny that? Come on! You, like me, seem to be suspicious of everyone....but somehow you have decided Godolphin runs a clean operation. You love them....it's obvious. I hate them....that's also obvious.

Now you are taking the " medical attention " comment personally? I don't think so, I think you know I was kidding around but it seems to work for your agument now.

It would be one thing to suggest that you believe Testimony sucked up because the viable competitors all tired from chasing...but to explain it to me in the manner you did seemed a little over the top. But, I will concede that I MAY have overreacted, and ask you....how come Testimony wasn't able to suck up one bit in either of his US races...both of which had contentious paces?

I'm still waiting for an answer to Almutawakel. Same thing as Testimony.

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

You are the biggest Godolphin cheerleader NOT on their payroll. Do you deny that? Come on! You, like me, seem to be suspicious of everyone....but somehow you have decided Godolphin runs a clean operation. You love them....it's obvious. I hate them....that's also obvious.

Now you are taking the " medical attention " comment personally? I don't think so, I think you know I was kidding around but it seems to work for your agument now.

It would be one thing to suggest that you believe Testimony sucked up because the viable competitors all tired from chasing...but to explain it to me in the manner you did seemed a little over the top. But, I will concede that I MAY have overreacted, and ask you....how come Testimony wasn't able to suck up one bit in either of his US races...both of which had contentious paces?

A) Remember, when I make a comment on here that it is NOT just to you....I am protecting my debates for every other person that reads this thread...you should undertsand that by now....these weren't PMs, this was a LIVE thread open to the public to see so I wanted to explain my point - like I always do - to the people not as educated to our sport as you or I...I'm really surprised you didn't see this...

B) As for the medical attention quote...I could really careless about what anyone on here personally thinks about me...that is why I give my name out when others are scared to...I believe in my ability to analyze this sprt as good as any so I say what I feel and I hope some people like the thoroughness and honesty of it...if you think that comment bothered me, your wrong...it was just an indicator as to where this thread was heading and it proved true once again - unfortunately....I have been listening you jabbing me for the last 3 months about how i liss the Shieks' ass in everytghing I do....I got yuour point on that like 4 months ago....yet, i've never lashed back or let it bother because i could careless...

c) So I like their horses, who gives a ****?...You don't...thats great...good for you, man. I also don't like (by the way, hate is a strong word) the freaking Yankees and I like the Braves, but who cares? Fans are fans....am I wrong because I like their horses and operation, no?...thats ridiculous man...just ridiculous...

Again, I'm a tad shocked here...

Originally Posted by Cunningham Racing

That is racing, BTW....everybody knows that when the top contenders get their hearts broken by the best horse (in this case DC) they begin to really flale in the stretch when the winner is runnig away from them and their not used to losing...when there is a runaway winner of a race you OFTEN see crappy plodding-style horses come along and close to clunk-up in the exotic placings without ever seriously threatening...I believe this is because horses who are not used to losing and get their herarts and confidence shattered when they can't match strides with a horse...I see it all the time...it is actually a classic handicapping angle if you can predict a runaway winner....

Horses like Simpatico Bribon and Invasor were actuallyb trying to win the race and trying to do so from the 3/8 pole to the wire....while a horse like Testamony, who did not have to ship and was familiar and confortable with the surroundings, wasn't trying to win the race so he didn't take out of his conventional style and comfort zone....

If the best horses always finished in the order they were supposed to run this game would be extinct....By your theory, a horse like Super Frolic is better than Sun King then if the only time they ran against each other Super Frolic clearly beat him by finishing 4th when Sun King faded well back in last yera's BC Classic, right?...No....Sun King was TRYING to win the race and got caught up in an ambitious pace before getting his head handed to him by Saint Liam and Flower Alley on the far turn, while Supah Blitz enjoyed a perfect trip and picked up the pieces for 4th at 70-1 while never threatening to win the race....it happens all of the time, man....you know that...

Joel, I really don't think anyone takes that day seriously anymore.
After Almutawakel won off like the "champion" he was(LOL!!) and couldnt hit the board in a money allowance race that fall at Belmont, well, all I can say is thats SOME form reversal.
And after The most disgraceful thing I've ever seen in the Brass Hat debacle, I'd have to say anyone who brings a truly good horse over there has to be kidding. I don't think its a very level playing field over there.

That being said, I have no gripes with calling Discreet cat potentially one of the fastest milers in decades, provided he actually beats someone besides Valid Notebook, Superfly, Testimony(LOL!!), and Accountforgold. Thats not exactly an allstar cast there.

Originally Posted by oracle80

Joel, I really don't think anyone takes that day seriously anymore.
After Almutawakel won off like the "champion" he was(LOL!!) and couldnt hit the board in a money allowance race that fall at Belmont, well, all I can say is thats SOME form reversal.
And after The most disgraceful thing I've ever seen in the Brass Hat debacle, I'd have to say anyone who brings a truly good horse over there has to be kidding. I don't think its a very level playing field over there.

That being said, I have no gripes with calling Discreet cat potentially one of the fastest milers in decades, provided he actually beats someone besides Valid Notebook, Superfly, Testimony(LOL!!), and Accountforgold. Thats not exactly an allstar cast there.

Yes what those pricks did to the Bradleys was reprehensible. I guess that's what happens when you deal with rich nomads.

Originally Posted by Pillow Pants

Yes what those pricks did to the Bradleys was reprehensible. I guess that's what happens when you deal with rich nomads.

Its in the same league as what Illinois just did to Wolfson. I find it VERY HARD to believe that Wolfson's horse was the only horse who raced that day who had trace levels of antiimflammatories!!!!!!!! Its called keeping the money "in house". Especially since the guy had never had a single postive in his life.
Guy I know shipped a horse to a small track near here for a stakes race. Brought in a NYRA jock also. Funny thing happened at the gate, they tailed him and teh asst starter wasnt real good with him in the gate, geez who'd figure? He broke bad of course and lost all chance.