SUN: Racing's media makeover paying off

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

Venue is a part of it. Why did they install lights at Churchill downs? Hmmmmmmm. Racing is going to be a part of an entertainment package. It will attract more people. So who cares if most of the people that come initially won't bet? Is that somehow better than the empty stands on a thursday afternoon where lone golf claps are heard for a mile?

What if instead of 6000 people on a saturday, you get 30k? Does anybody really think that the extra 24k won't create SOME handle? Does anybody really think they won't eat, drink and buy souveniers? Will they pay for premium seats? All of this is revenue.

Stronach's ideas for gulfstream were on the money. The planning and execution just stunk.

You are delusional to think that horseracing on a regular basis can market itself into 30000 fans. Honestly horseracing is pretty boring if you arent betting or have some sort of rooting interest.

And all of the fantasy revenue you just created goes directly into the pocket of the track, it doesnt help the grow the racing program or do a thing for those that actually do gamble except make things less conveinent.

Stronachs ideas for Gulfstream were ridiclous from the standpoint of the sport of horseracing. Perhaps for the bottom line of Magna they were great ideas but the idea that people are going to go to a mall, wander over to the track and become horseracing players is crazy.

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

You are delusional to think that horseracing on a regular basis can market itself into 30000 fans. Honestly horseracing is pretty boring if you arent betting or have some sort of rooting interest.

And all of the fantasy revenue you just created goes directly into the pocket of the track, it doesnt help the grow the racing program or do a thing for those that actually do gamble except make things less conveinent.

Stronachs ideas for Gulfstream were ridiclous from the standpoint of the sport of horseracing. Perhaps for the bottom line of Magna they were great ideas but the idea that people are going to go to a mall, wander over to the track and become horseracing players is crazy.

Kill a third of the tracks and dates!

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by freddymo

Kill a third of the tracks and dates!

Biggest red herring out there. If you eliminate Thistledown, River Downs, Mountaineer, presque isle, etc how does that help Belmont and Santa Anita? it is like saying that if MLB got rid of rookie league and single A leagues, MLB would be more popular. The problem isnt and never has been the size or scope of the sport. On the contrary according to many in this thread the 'exposure' to horseracing leads to a fever that the exposed masses catch which makes them become horseplayers.

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Biggest red herring out there. If you eliminate Thistledown, River Downs, Mountaineer, presque isle, etc how does that help Belmont and Santa Anita? it is like saying that if MLB got rid of rookie league and single A leagues, MLB would be more popular. The problem isnt and never has been the size or scope of the sport. On the contrary according to many in this thread the 'exposure' to horseracing leads to a fever that the exposed masses catch which makes them become horseplayers.

It makes a huge difference..Maybe not immediately but these horses will ultimately not be raced and the industry will contract to a sustainable level. If each of those tracks have 50 horses that could be raced at a real track that is 300 head racing in a sustainable racing environment. Less trainer, less grooms, less dates, less of everything that shouldnt be.

[freddymo]

More great news from NY.. Apparently by 10/1 the state will choose another slot operator.. LOL and they will open 12 months from that date.. So 10/1/11 slots will be opened for business...SURE

http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-raci...ted?source=rss

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by freddymo

It makes a huge difference..Maybe not immediately but these horses will ultimately not be raced and the industry will contract to a sustainable level. If each of those tracks have 50 horses that could be raced at a real track that is 300 head racing in a sustainable racing environment. Less trainer, less grooms, less dates, less of everything that shouldnt be.

So if lower level horses that you already arent betting on arent raced, higher quality racing will abound? If this were sports and there were 30 teams and you contracted 8 teams then yes the quality of player would increase. But this isnt sports and the vast majority of horses at the low levels would not be competitive at a higher level.

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

So if lower level horses that you already arent betting on arent raced, higher quality racing will abound? If this were sports and there were 30 teams and you contracted 8 teams then yes the quality of player would increase. But this isnt sports and the vast majority of horses at the low levels would not be competitive at a higher level.

Chuck there is allowance company at these tracks and they would not be at AP or Bel etc but they would HAVE to be raced in claiming/starter conditions..WHY? because the alternatives need to be closed. Then you wouldnt breed some unraced mare that is from an unraced mare to Say Florida Sandy because its only 1000 bucks

The allowance crap at Thistle could race in conditional 10's at AP? Now the fields are larger at AP and the betting becomes more interesting..AND the bettor has few races to spend the gambling buck

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by freddymo

Chuck there is allowance company at these tracks and they would not be at AP or Bel etc but they would HAVE to be raced in claiming/starter conditions..WHY? because the alternatives need to be closed. Then you wouldnt breed some unraced mare that is from an unraced mare to Say Florida Sandy because its only 1000 bucks

The allowance crap at Thistle could race in conditional 10's at AP? Now the fields are larger at AP and the betting becomes more interesting..AND the bettor has few races to spend the gambling buck

Ok Freddy here is a question for you? how many of the owners who race horses at these tracks can or are willing to pay $100 a day to run at the top tracks? That is why they are running there. They all have horse vans and condition books are readily available on the internet.

[freddymo]

Let's get the nails in the coffin already..We need slots in KY. NY. NJ(tracks) Va. Ga.(for the new track) then racing will finally get what it richly deserves!!

Mountaineer's owner shows loss
By Matt Hegarty
MTR Gaming Group Inc., the owner of Mountaineer racetrack and casino and Presque Isle Downs, had a loss of $3.1 million in the first quarter of 2010, according to financial statements released on Monday, on a sharp decline in revenue compared with the first quarter of last year.

Revenue for the quarter was $91.9 million, down 8.6 percent from revenue of $100.6 million in the first quarter of last year. In a release, officials for the company cited severe winter weather in 2010 and the effects of the recession for the decline. Last year in the first quarter, MTR Gaming had a profit of $800,000.

Both Mountaineer in West Virginia and Presque Isle Downs in Pennsylvania derive the vast amount of their revenue from casino operations. For the quarter, revenue from parimutuel operations at the tracks was $1.3 million, compared with $2 million in the quarter last year.

Mountaineer trimmed its schedule this year, eliminating live racing in January and February.

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

You are delusional to think that horseracing on a regular basis can market itself into 30000 fans. Honestly horseracing is pretty boring if you arent betting or have some sort of rooting interest.

And all of the fantasy revenue you just created goes directly into the pocket of the track, it doesnt help the grow the racing program or do a thing for those that actually do gamble except make things less conveinent.

Stronachs ideas for Gulfstream were ridiclous from the standpoint of the sport of horseracing. Perhaps for the bottom line of Magna they were great ideas but the idea that people are going to go to a mall, wander over to the track and become horseracing players is crazy.

Gulfstream has racing dates from the beginning of January until the end of april. It sits vacant for basically two thirds of the year. How is this economical if racing is the basis for all of its revenue? That sounds like a pretty poor business model to me. If I opened a restaurant, how am I going to make money if I'm closed two third of the year and when I'm open, I only fill 10% of my tables?????

Remember now, I still have to pay taxes on my swath of South florida real estate. I have to maintain it as well during those off months. How is this economically feasible?

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

Gulfstream has racing dates from the beginning of January until the end of april. It sits vacant for basically two thirds of the year. How is this economical if racing is the basis for all of its revenue? That sounds like a pretty poor business model to me. If I opened a restaurant, how am I going to make money if I'm closed two third of the year and when I'm open, I only fill 10% of my tables?????

Remember now, I still have to pay taxes on my swath of South florida real estate. I have to maintain it as well during those off months. How is this economically feasible?

Again how does it help the racing product? They have a casino and restaurants within the racetrack that are open year round as well as simulcasting, and those things feed money into the racing product.

How is it economically feasible? You keep using projects that are bleeding money as an example of your vision of the future.

The real problem with Franks vision of Gulfstream other than him refusing to listen to anyone about anything is that the area didn't need more retail shops or restaurants, hence the place being empty. Everything sounds great in theory but the reality of the situation is that he is serving what is already overserviced EXCEPT for the racing product.

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Again how does it help the racing product? They have a casino and restaurants within the racetrack that are open year round as well as simulcasting, and those things feed money into the racing product.

How is it economically feasible? You keep using projects that are bleeding money as an example of your vision of the future.

The real problem with Franks vision of Gulfstream other than him refusing to listen to anyone about anything is that the area didn't need more retail shops or restaurants, hence the place being empty. Everything sounds great in theory but the reality of the situation is that he is serving what is already overserviced EXCEPT for the racing product.

Ahh the shortsighted. Anything entertainment related is doing swimmingly right now isnt it? Besides that, you support my point. Without the other streams of revenue, racing could not survive and going forward more revenue streams need to be created.

I didnt say that Gulfstream was great. I said the idea was great and I believe that he was on the right track its just the planning and execution stunk.

You tell me Chuck how Charlestown thrives? Is that racing product any good? Do you get better odds at the Borgata casino than you do at Trump? Are the slots looser there?

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

Ahh the shortsighted. Anything entertainment related is doing swimmingly right now isnt it? Besides that, you support my point. Without the other streams of revenue, racing could not survive and going forward more revenue streams need to be created.

I didnt say that Gulfstream was great. I said the idea was great and I believe that he was on the right track its just the planning and execution stunk.

You tell me Chuck how Charlestown thrives? Is that racing product any good? Do you get better odds at the Borgata casino than you do at Trump? Are the slots looser there?

Hold on a minute. Now everything entertainment related is tanking? So your theory is valid, those pesky details like every project you bring up is hemorraging cash is the fault of the economy?

So Stronach's idea was a good one but the demographics of Aventura/N.Miami/Hallandale/Hollywood have somehow screwed him? The idea for the gulfstream park location was anything but a good idea. Except to you and frank. The idea of night racing and entertainment centers/malls are not original ideas. Freddy Mo would just close it all down.

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Hold on a minute. Now everything entertainment related is tanking? So your theory is valid, those pesky details like every project you bring up is hemorraging cash is the fault of the economy?

So Stronach's idea was a good one but the demographics of Aventura/N.Miami/Hallandale/Hollywood have somehow screwed him? The idea for the gulfstream park location was anything but a good idea. Except to you and frank. The idea of night racing and entertainment centers/malls are not original ideas. Freddy Mo would just close it all down.

Racing 5k claimers at Penn for 18k with 30k bet on the race in front of 1000 people if beyond stupid for racing especially when 7 of the horses in the race cant run a 50 BSF

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by freddymo

Racing 5k claimers at Penn for 18k with 30k bet on the race in front of 1000 people if beyond stupid for racing especially when 7 of the horses in the race cant run a 50 BSF

It isnt stupid for those that choose to wager on it. it isnt stupid for those who race for those pots. The elimination of those horses doesnt benefit racing at higher venues. All it does is give the player fewer racing choices and drive them to play poker or some other gambling activity.

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Hold on a minute. Now everything entertainment related is tanking? So your theory is valid, those pesky details like every project you bring up is hemorraging cash is the fault of the economy?

So Stronach's idea was a good one but the demographics of Aventura/N.Miami/Hallandale/Hollywood have somehow screwed him? The idea for the gulfstream park location was anything but a good idea. Except to you and frank. The idea of night racing and entertainment centers/malls are not original ideas. Freddy Mo would just close it all down.

You never addressed anything I said. I will repost:

You tell me Chuck how Charlestown thrives? Is that racing product any good? Do you get better odds at the Borgata casino than you do at Trump? Are the slots looser there?

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

You never addressed anything I said. I will repost:

You tell me Chuck how Charlestown thrives? Is that racing product any good? Do you get better odds at the Borgata casino than you do at Trump? Are the slots looser there?

I dont follow CT so I cant tell you anything about it.

I dont care about the odds at the Borgata or Trump.

I dont ever play slots so i dont know or care about them.