Zenyatta v. Rail Trip??

[Rupert Pupkin]

I think that Moss/Shirreffs had three goals for this year. I think their first goal was to beat RA. I think their second goal was to win the BC Classic again. I think their 3rd goal was to win HOY. I think those were their three big goals.

They tried to face RA but things didn't work out. At this point, I think their goals are the BC Classic and winning HOY.

I don't think that they think they have anything to prove. At this point, they will probably just look for the path of least resistance to the BC Classic. If they win the BC Classic, I think she is HOY regardless of how easy her schedule is leading up to the race.

As I said, I don't think they feel that they have anything to prove and even if there was something to prove, it would be proven in this year's BC Classic at Churchill. Nobody will be able to knock the horse if she wins the BC Classic again this year.

[Merlinsky]

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

I think that Moss/Shirreffs had three goals for this year. I think their first goal was to beat RA. I think their second goal was to win the BC Classic again. I think their 3rd goal was to win HOY. I think those were their three big goals.

They tried to face RA but things didn't work out. At this point, I think their goals are the BC Classic and winning HOY.

I don't think that they think they have anything to prove. At this point, they will probably just look for the path of least resistance to the BC Classic. If they win the BC Classic, I think she is HOY regardless of how easy her schedule is leading up to the race.

As I said, I don't think they feel that they have anything to prove and even if there was something to prove, it would be proven in this year's BC Classic at Churchill. Nobody will be able to knock the horse if she wins the BC Classic again this year.

Considering how difficult it is to do back to back, she'll definitely get a ton of credit in terms of her overall legend, but Tiznow did it and his 2nd didn't get him HOY because the rest of the campaign didn't bear him out in comparison to Point Given's year. PG didn't even have to show up for the BCC to get it. I don't know why everybody acts like not going ought to DQ you or something--it's but one factor to consider. We need to see what everybody else does. Some 3yos could pull what Tiznow did his 3yo season and show up later. We're already missing some recovering from Derby prep injuries or just now coming along. I've said it before, Zenyatta's magic, but I'm just not a fan of conceding a season to one horse before it's happened. I hope she's covered up with challengers by the end of this. It's better for racing. If she is and still kicks some tail, bravo for her.

I'd just love to see her at Belmont or Saratoga. Can someone explain to them that Zenyatta doesn't understand the words "ladies and gentlemen, if you'll look out the window of the cabin, you'll notice that we are currently crossing over the Rocky Mountains" ?

[declansharbor]

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

I think that Moss/Shirreffs had three goals for this year. I think their first goal was to beat RA. I think their second goal was to win the BC Classic again. I think their 3rd goal was to win HOY. I think those were their three big goals.

They tried to face RA but things didn't work out. At this point, I think their goals are the BC Classic and winning HOY.

I don't think that they think they have anything to prove. At this point, they will probably just look for the path of least resistance to the BC Classic. If they win the BC Classic, I think she is HOY regardless of how easy her schedule is leading up to the race.

As I said, I don't think they feel that they have anything to prove and even if there was something to prove, it would be proven in this year's BC Classic at Churchill. Nobody will be able to knock the horse if she wins the BC Classic again this year.

We both know that the haters will hate, no matter what. I'm sure some will cite the cupcake competition, race dynamics, etc. if she somehow re-claims the BC Classic title. Nature of the beast.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by declansharbor

We both know that the haters will hate, no matter what. I'm sure some will cite the cupcake competition, race dynamics, etc. if she somehow re-claims the BC Classic title. Nature of the beast.

Just because people have realistic reservations about Zenyatta doesn't make them " haters. "

Frankly, if she were to win this year's BC Classic, especially over Quality Road, it would make her shockingly cautious 2010 campaign even more disappointing. Even if one has reservations, who would deny how great it would be to see her strutting her stuff against some of the best competition she can find ( much like some other horse, whose name escapes me, did last year ) throughout the year? Even if these horses aren't all-time greats, taking on the best available talent would go a long ways to silencing her critics, and causing, perhaps, some well deserved excitement.

[declansharbor]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

Just because people have realistic reservations about Zenyatta doesn't make them " haters. "

Frankly, if she were to win this year's BC Classic, especially over Quality Road, it would make her shockingly cautious 2010 campaign even more disappointing. Even if one has reservations, who would deny how great it would be to see her strutting her stuff against some of the best competition she can find ( much like some other horse, whose name escapes me, did last year ) throughout the year? Even if these horses aren't all-time greats, taking on the best available talent would go a long ways to silencing her critics, and causing, perhaps, some well deserved excitement.

If Quality Road had his head on straight that day, and Z blows his doors off like she did the rest of the competition, would you have a different take on her? I'm not being combative in my questioning, just curious if you'd feel the same way towards her if QR didnt scratch from the race and ran his usual good one only to lose.

I, for one, didn't think she'd crack the exacta in last years BC race. We (no, im not in BBB's camp ) bet against her that day hand over fist, and was still THRILLED with the end result. I went from being a fan of the horse, (one that was on the fence in the Z/RA debate) to a supporter that clearly has his fandom in the corner of Zenyatta.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by declansharbor

If Quality Road had his head on straight that day, and Z blows his doors off like she did the rest of the competition, would you have a different take on her? I'm not being combative in my questioning, just curious if you'd feel the same way towards her if QR didnt scratch from the race and ran his usual good one only to lose.

I, for one, didn't think she'd crack the exacta in last years BC race. We (no, im not in BBB's camp ) bet against her that day hand over fist, and was still THRILLED with the end result. I went from being a fan of the horse, (one that was on the fence in the Z/RA debate) to a supporter that clearly has his fandom in the corner of Zenyatta.

Beating horses on a surface they don't relish doesn't prove a heck of a lot to me. Since her supporters universally say Zenyatta is better on dirt than synth, I'll judge her by how she performs against the best available talent on their preferred surface.

[10 pnt move up]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

Beating horses on a surface they don't relish doesn't prove a heck of a lot to me.

Has she proved anything to you?

[parsixfarms]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

Frankly, if she were to win this year's BC Classic, especially over Quality Road, it would make her shockingly cautious 2010 campaign even more disappointing. Even if one has reservations, who would deny how great it would be to see her strutting her stuff against some of the best competition she can find ( much like some other horse, whose name escapes me, did last year ) throughout the year? Even if these horses aren't all-time greats, taking on the best available talent would go a long ways to silencing her critics, and causing, perhaps, some well deserved excitement.

Taking RA out of the equation (which always seems to become a lightning rod situation), we need only look to the recent examples of horses like Ouija Board and Goldikova to see how a champion mare can be campaigned - and perhaps more importantly how there need not be shame in losing. Their campaigns against Grade I males didn't prevent them from turning in championship performances on Breeders' Cup Day, even though their connections did far more shipping and campaigned their horses as if they were champions. If Shirreffs/Moss continue to campaign Zenyatta as they suggest, they have no one to blame but themselves if their mare doesn't receive the accolades that they apparently think she deserves.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by parsixfarms

Taking RA out of the equation (which always seems to become a lightning rod situation), we need only look to the recent examples of horses like Ouija Board and Goldikova to see how a champion mare can be campaigned - and perhaps more importantly how there need not be shame in losing. Their campaigns against Grade I males didn't prevent them from turning in championship performances on Breeders' Cup Day, even though their connections did far more shipping and campaigned their horses as if they were champions. If Shirreffs/Moss continue to campaign Zenyatta as they suggest, they have no one to blame but themselves if their mare doesn't receive the accolades that they apparently think she deserves.

Fear of losing has no place on the road to success.

[parsixfarms]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

Fear of losing has no place on the road to success.

Agreed.

[blackthroatedwind]

It will be interesting to see if Zenyatta is campaigned differently if Super Saver wins the Triple Crown. Though, I guess at that point she can't win HOY.