Catholic Leadership

[brianwspencer]

Originally Posted by timmgirvan

At least they should have expelled the offenders instead of moving from one parrish to another. The toll of this decadence is so pervasive that it's a wonder the Catholic church keeps the doors open.

That's basically what I'm saying, right. As more light shines into this, it's becoming apparent that not only is abuse rampant, but that TONS of people all the way on up to the Vatican knew about it and did absolutely nothing in order to protect their church rather than kick sex offenders out.

Instead, not only are they permitted to keep their jobs, they're permitted to keep jobs where having close contact with children is a necessary and frequent occurrence.

So essentially they've continued to allow these men to abuse kids, altering those kids' lives permanently for the worse, in the name of their own self-preservation.

It's disgusting.

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Originally Posted by brianwspencer

So essentially they've continued to allow these men to abuse kids, altering those kids' lives permanently for the worse, in the name of their own self-preservation.

It's disgusting.

Don't you think it's stupid for adults to actually convince themselves that men(with attachments) aren't gunna have sex with something? I don't know what's more weird. The fact that Catholics believe that, or the fact that they think they're actually eating Jesus. If they believe these 1st two, then I guess we shouldn't be surprised that they think prayer can heal these guys of their kiddy-crush. Maybe it is self preservation, but they also convince themselves that these guys can stop by using faith.

[randallscott35]

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/31/op...ml?ref=opinion

[joeydb]

Well, if we're going to rip apart the Catholics and the Pope, how about a little equal time for that nut Louis Farrakhan and his "Nation of Islam" folks? Or how about the "kill the infidels" phrases that seem to be appearing in other "holy" texts these days...

It's always the Catholics you guys want to pick on. Yes, the scandalous priests, every one of them, should be defrocked and then prosecuted to the full extent of the law. They should never have been priests, and there is no higher offense than to do evil in God's name. I wouldn't give a nickel for their souls, because if you believe in an afterlife, they're going to have a big problem. And I agree that the Catholic "tradition" of having unmarried priests is an anachronism that should have been ended years ago.

But such educated statements like "All Catholics are idiots" just speak to the ignorance of some commenters here. If this was a thread bashing Jews, muslims, or non-Catholic Christians, the reaction would be much different I am sure.

[randallscott35]

I don't see where anyone called Catholics idiots. Don't make **** up. My dad is Catholic, I call it like I see it. Show me another religion that sweeps this kind of sex abuse under the table on a regular basis and I will take them to task. Get a grip.

[joeydb]

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER

Don't you think it's stupid for adults to actually convince themselves that men(with attachments) aren't gunna have sex with something? I don't know what's more weird. The fact that Catholics believe that, or the fact that they think they're actually eating Jesus. If they believe these 1st two, then I guess we shouldn't be surprised that they think prayer can heal these guys of their kiddy-crush. Maybe it is self preservation, but they also convince themselves that these guys can stop by using faith.

Don't you think the "idiots" line I used is an accurate paraphrase of the quote above? Every sentence smacks of calling Catholics stupid.

[dalakhani]

You used quotation marks Joeydb. If you use quotations, you are supposed to be quoting someone not paraphrasing. Your implication is that someone actually said exactly what you quoted. That was not the case regardless of the accuracy of your translation.

For the record, I don't think Scuds meant that "all Catholics are idiots" as you wrongly implied. I think he was just saying that the Catholic Church needs to modernize and realize that some of the expectations of the clergy are unrealistic.

Unrealistic expectations aren't limited to the "idiots" of the world. Look at horse racing. Filled with unrealistic expectations from people that you would hardly classify as dumb.

[joeydb]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

You used quotation marks Joeydb. If you use quotations, you are supposed to be quoting someone not paraphrasing. Your implication is that someone actually said exactly what you quoted. That was not the case regardless of the accuracy of your translation.

True. I should not have used quote marks for a paraphrase. Sorry for any confusion the phrase in quotes had caused.

[Danzig]

why would this require equal time as far as religion bashing? the point is, the catholic leadership is very much a problem insofar as this topic goes. abuses have been systematically ignored or swept under the table for decades. and it wasn't just on a diocesan level, it's on every level. and i doubt that anyone could successfully argue that it's catholic bashing. this is a very real and sickening issue. it's got nothing to do with islam or farrakhan. they may have their issues, but why should they get drawn into this particular fray? the fact is, this is a huge problem with the catholic church, and with the catholic hierarchy. any other leader of any type would be facing serious charges-why is the pope untouchable? he shouldn't be. this issue is one of the reasons i left the catholic church-and the problem only seems to grow; it doesn't seem to be something they have been able to take seriously after all these years.

[randallscott35]

Originally Posted by Danzig

why would this require equal time as far as religion bashing? the point is, the catholic leadership is very much a problem insofar as this topic goes. abuses have been systematically ignored or swept under the table for decades. and it wasn't just on a diocesan level, it's on every level. and i doubt that anyone could successfully argue that it's catholic bashing. this is a very real and sickening issue. it's got nothing to do with islam or farrakhan. they may have their issues, but why should they get drawn into this particular fray? the fact is, this is a huge problem with the catholic church, and with the catholic hierarchy. any other leader of any type would be facing serious charges-why is the pope untouchable? he shouldn't be. this issue is one of the reasons i left the catholic church-and the problem only seems to grow; it doesn't seem to be something they have been able to take seriously after all these years.

[AeWingnut]

Originally Posted by Danzig

why would this require equal time as far as religion bashing? the point is, the catholic leadership is very much a problem insofar as this topic goes. abuses have been systematically ignored or swept under the table for decades. and it wasn't just on a diocesan level, it's on every level. and i doubt that anyone could successfully argue that it's catholic bashing. this is a very real and sickening issue. it's got nothing to do with islam or farrakhan. they may have their issues, but why should they get drawn into this particular fray? the fact is, this is a huge problem with the catholic church, and with the catholic hierarchy. any other leader of any type would be facing serious charges-why is the pope untouchable? he shouldn't be. this issue is one of the reasons i left the catholic church-and the problem only seems to grow; it doesn't seem to be something they have been able to take seriously after all these years.

I agree. Saying they all do it doesn't cut it at all. They didn't care what their fellow priests were doing until it cost them money. All the current Pope did was blame the US. Said we were an immoral country.

[timmgirvan]

Originally Posted by joeydb

Don't you think the "idiots" line I used is an accurate paraphrase of the quote above? Every sentence smacks of calling Catholics stupid.

you have to consider the source of this quote. I'm just sayin

[AeWingnut]

http://www.southparkstudios.com/episodes/103969

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Originally Posted by joeydb

Don't you think the "idiots" line I used is an accurate paraphrase of the quote above? Every sentence smacks of calling Catholics stupid.

I've said on here many times that (overall) I think Catholicism does the best job of encouraging Christians to follow Christ's teachings. Most other forms of Christianity do a pretty poor job of that (they prefer to focus on encouraging the hate that people already have.) I used "stupid" as an adjective. The noun was "the idea" that men with attachments can be celibate. Then, I used the word "weird" as an adjective. The noun was "the idea" that Catholics think they're actually eating Jesus. The reason I say Catholics believe that is because it's the position of their church. So, there are 2 examples of unusually naive beliefs. It doesn't shock me to find out that priests think sexually abusive priests can be healed by faith. If you take the naive belief in celibacy and combine it with Christ's teachings on forgiveness etc., then it's a set up for some of this. I don't think Catholics are stupid, or idiots. I do think the idea of celibacy for intact males is stupid. So, I think their church has a stupid policy, and most of this damage was caused by it.

[randallscott35]

LONDON (Reuters) - The leader of the Roman Catholic Church in England and Wales has said he understands the attraction of arguments for the use of contraception in the developing world, in an apparent softening of the Church's line.

But Archbishop of Westminster Vincent Nichols went on to say it was not the Church's role to support such a short-term fix, adding it would continue to fight poverty, which often contributed to high birth rates.

"I think when it comes to Third World poverty, and the great pressure into which many women are put by men, I can see the arguments why, in the short-term, means that give women protection are attractive," Nichols said in extracts of an interview released by BBC Radio WM before broadcast on Friday.

"The use of condoms doesn't lack for champions; there are plenty of champions around giving and distributing condoms. I don't think it's the Church's role simply to add its voice to that but rather, in contrast, to keep saying, "If we solve the poverty then consistently we know the birth rate comes down'."

The Catholic Church opposes contraception saying it denies the divine gift of life.

Aid agencies and some within the Church have called for a change of policy, saying it endangers women's lives and contributes to the spread of HIV. But the Vatican has rejected such a move, supporting only "natural" birth control.

Last year, during his first trip to Africa, Pope Benedict said condoms were not the answer to fighting HIV and AIDS, and that they could make the situation worse.

Nichols recently issued a document directed at the British electorate and political parties before a parliamentary election expected on May 6 in which he opposed abortion and stressed the importance of marriage and the family.

"Choosing the Common Good" was seen by some newspapers as veiled support for the main opposition Conservatives who have put marriage at the centre of their tax policy.
The Conservatives are narrowly ahead in opinion polls, hoping to end 13 years of Labour rule.

The Pope, who has been critical of Labour's equality legislation, is due to visit Britain in September.

[Danzig]

how (supposed) celibate men can make any comments and concrete statements regarding sex lives, i don't know. that would be akin to me telling a boy how to become a man. how the hell would i know?

[brianwspencer]

It's very long, but a blogger I like wrote quite extensively on this -- the entire post is worth a read, but I've knocked out my favorite part below that really speaks to what pisses me off so much.

I love how Giuseppe dalla Torre, head of the Vatican's tribunal...took a moment to note that the Catholic Church "is not a multi-national corporation." In case no one had noticed.

Q: Besides NOT PAYING TAXES, how can you tell the Church isn't a multi-national corporation?

A: If Microsoft, say, were discovered to have been covering up an international child rape ring among its ranks for (at least) decades, and Bill Gates were discovered to have authored a letter ordering members of his organization to keep it secret, and the Dublin office had been discovered to be conspiring with police to hide evidence and silence survivors, and employees who had been identified as child rapists were just moved to other offices, like pedophilia is all about location location location! and because the organization's reputation is more important than protecting children from known rapists, and Microsoft spent more time deflecting responsibility and blaming its gay employees (FOR ****'S SAKE) for the crimes committed by the sexual predators the organization had abetted and protected...Microsoft would be OUT OF ****ING BUSINESS.

Because no one would be making any goddamn excuses for any multi-national corporation, no matter how much other "good stuff" they'd allegedly done, if that organization had been found to be disproportionately staffed with men eminently capable of committing or concealing child rape, corruptible from guy in the local franchise straight to the CEO at the top.

That corporation would be DONE.

But claim to have a direct line to God, and suddenly everything's different.

That is Christian privilege of almost inconceivable proportions, right there: As long as you assert a belief in divine justice, you're more likely to escape human justice.

It's a particularly cruel irony that those who assert moral authority are given the most latitude to behave in immoral ways without the inconvenient bother of being held accountable for their crimes.

And when people who are decidedly unthrilled about the privilege conferred upon religious institutions, particularly in the midst of a worldwide crisis of sexual assault in which countless children have been victimized, challenge this privilege, they are dismissed as bigots, as wanton haters of the Church, or its adherents, or its doctrine—as if there is not a preponderance of evidence to warrant legitimate criticism, as if they are being unfair, as if standing up for children, vociferously and unyieldingly and despite knowing the shitstorm of accusations of bigotry to come, is somehow evidence of a "real" moral failing.

As if compassion for countless children being sexually assaulted is just a convenient excuse to criticize the Church used by atheists and secularists and feminists and other nefarious types.