First call to impeach Obama, depending on what he does...

[hi_im_god]

so one administration endorsed kidnapping, torture, and domestic spying.

while the other might sign a law passed using a house rule more often invoked by republicans than democrats in the past.

guess which one supposed small govenment conservatives think should be impeached?

conservatives are fun. everything is put in the most extreme language possible and no sense of proportion is tolerated.

i think we could actually see their heads explode in anger soon. wheee!

[mclem0822]

Originally Posted by hi_im_god[B

]so one administration endorsed kidnapping, torture, and domestic spying.
while the other might sign a law passed using a house rule more often invoked by republicans than democrats in the past.
[/b] guess which one supposed small govenment conservatives think should be impeached?

conservatives are fun. everything is put in the most extreme language possible and no sense of proportion is tolerated.

i think we could actually see their heads explode in anger soon. wheee!

Excellent points!

[joeydb]

Originally Posted by hi_im_god

so one administration endorsed kidnapping, torture, and domestic spying.

while the other might sign a law passed using a house rule more often invoked by republicans than democrats in the past.

guess which one supposed small govenment conservatives think should be impeached?

conservatives are fun. everything is put in the most extreme language possible and no sense of proportion is tolerated.

i think we could actually see their heads explode in anger soon. wheee!

Too bad water boarding is not torture, despite Mr. Obama's opinion. Where was there kidnapping? That's a new one. If by domestic spying, you mean NSA listening in on terrorists calling operatives within this country, that's quite a stretch.

Where was the sense of proportion shown by Michael Moore, Cindy Sheehan, Al Gore "HE BETRAYED THIS COUNTRY! HE PLAYED ON OUR FEARS!!!"...remember any of that?

It's the liberals that are the buffoons. They're the ones who can't build anything, but always try to take over what someone else achieved. Want an example? Pick any of the major cities in this country run by Democrats. They're all dying. Detroit, Philly, New York -- hell...forget cities...how about the whole state of California.

Your worst nightmare is that the sleeping dragon has woken up to how empty and counterproductive to progress liberalism really is.

[mclem0822]

Originally Posted by joeydb

Too bad water boarding is not torture, despite Mr. Obama's opinion. Where was there kidnapping? That's a new one. If by domestic spying, you mean NSA listening in on terrorists calling operatives within this country, that's quite a stretch.

Where was the sense of proportion shown by Michael Moore, Cindy Sheehan, Al Gore "HE BETRAYED THIS COUNTRY! HE PLAYED ON OUR FEARS!!!"...remember any of that?

It's the liberals that are the buffoons. They're the ones who can't build anything, but always try to take over what someone else achieved. Want an example? Pick any of the major cities in this country run by Democrats. They're all dying. Detroit, Philly, New York -- hell...forget cities...how about the whole state of California.

Your worst nightmare is that the sleeping dragon has woken up to how empty and counterproductive to progress liberalism really is.

Ok, let's try putting a bag over your mellon and pouring water down your pie hole and will see what you think then! Anyone who doesn't think water boarding is torture is beyond an IDIOT! In terms of kidnapping, some would say snatching people up and tossing them in a freakin cell for years without evidence or justification could be called kidnapping! Wake up and smell what your shoveling!

[joeydb]

Originally Posted by mclem0822

Ok, let's try putting a bag over your mellon and pouring water down your pie hole and will see what you think then! Anyone who doesn't think water boarding is torture is beyond an IDIOT! In terms of kidnapping, some would say snatching people up and tossing them in a freakin cell for years without evidence or justification could be called kidnapping! Wake up and smell what your shoveling!

Wow, that was the most educated and well-reasoned counter argument I've ever heard from a liberal.

I am half kidding.

[mclem0822]

Originally Posted by joeydb

Wow, that was the most educated and well-reasoned counter argument I've ever heard from a liberal.

I am half kidding.

Thanks, I think lol. You fired me Joey, what can I say those kind of arguments get under my skin.

[joeydb]

By the way, this is torture...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Types_o...n_of_Singapore

Kempetai

They are Japanese military officers who took over the local police’s control. Their duty was to seek out for anti-Japanese. They recruit spies from the community and reward them for giving information. Suspects captured were often kept in the small cells then mercilessly tortured for information even if they are innocent.

Methods of torture that they used:

1) Water torture- The water was forced down the throat of the person using a hose until the stomach bloats. Then they would use any kind of way to get the water out. For instance, they would use a stick to hit the stomach or jump on the person. The person not only suffers pain but also have their health affected for a lifetime.

2) Electric shocks- The person is tied up and electrocuted. This will continue until the person confesses or passes out. Then they will use water to revive him or her. Some are so bad that it affected their health for life.

3) Sun –Bathing- Suspects (Men, women and children alike) were made to kneel long hours in the sun. Due to long exposure in the sun, they will see their skin start to peel.

4) Whipping- This is one of their favorite ways of torture. They will tie then whip the suspect. Because the suspect is unable to move, he or she can only howl in pain. The suspect will have scars left due to the whipping.

5) Boiling- The person is put in a pot to be “cooked”. They would boil the water gradually first then wait for confession. If the suspect confesses, all torture would end. If he passes out, they will revive him. Then boil him again until he confesses or dies.

6) Tearing the nails- They would tear the nails of the suspect out. Torture would stop when all ten nails of the suspect is torn out.

Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Types_of_torture_used_in_the_Japanese_occupation_o f_Singapore"

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by mclem0822

Ok, let's try putting a bag over your mellon and pouring water down your pie hole and will see what you think then! Anyone who doesn't think water boarding is torture is beyond an IDIOT! In terms of kidnapping, some would say snatching people up and tossing them in a freakin cell for years without evidence or justification could be called kidnapping! Wake up and smell what your shoveling!

wow. bin laden and crew flew planes into the WTC, Pentegon, and our great country gets to have people like you, who I guess get their panties in a bunch over the rights of terrorists. Why do you care so much about people who want to blow themselves up to kill you and any innocent non-muslim civilian? The only thing you should care about is stopping the terrorists so they dont have the chance to blow you up.

[hi_im_god]

Originally Posted by Antitrust32

wow. bin laden and crew flew planes into the WTC, Pentegon, and our great country gets to have people like you, who I guess get their panties in a bunch over the rights of terrorists. Why do you care so much about people who want to blow themselves up to kill you and any innocent non-muslim civilian? The only thing you should care about is stopping the terrorists so they dont have the chance to blow you up.

because either we live under the rule of law or we don't.

did the constitution not survive 9/11? was it a casualty too?

you don't want to give someone the power to pick and choose the times that we have rights.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waterboarding


Vietnam War

Waterboarding was designated as illegal by U.S. generals in the Vietnam War.[109] On January 21, 1968, The Washington Post published a controversial front-page photograph of two U.S soldiers and one South Vietnamese soldier participating in the waterboarding of a North Vietnamese POW near Da Nang.[110] The article described the practice as "fairly common".[110] The photograph led to the soldier being court-martialled by a U.S. military court within one month of its publication, and he was discharged from the army.[109][111] Another waterboarding photograph of the same scene, referred to as "water torture" in the caption, is also exhibited in the War Remnants Museum in Ho Chi Minh City.[112]

and...

U.S. government officials have at various times said they do not believe waterboarding to be a form of torture.[13][14][15][16] To justify its use of waterboarding, the administration of George W. Bush issued classified legal opinions that argued for a narrow definition of torture under U.S. law, including the Bybee memo, which it later withdrew.[17][18][19]

and...

Subsequently, the U.S. government released a memorandum written in 2002 by the Office of Legal Counsel that came to the conclusion that waterboarding did not constitute torture and could be used to interrogate subjects. The OLC reasoned that "in order for pain or suffering to rise to the level of torture, the statute requires that it be severe" and that waterboarding did not cause severe pain or suffering either physically or mentally.[47]
For over three years during the George W. Bush administration, the Justice Department’s Office of Professional Responsibility conducted an investigation into the propriety of this and other memos by the Justice Department on waterboarding and other "enhanced" interrogation techniques.[48] The OPR report findings were that former Deputy AAG John Yoo committed intentional professional misconduct and that former AAG Jay Bybee committed professional misconduct. These findings were dismissed in a memo from Associate Deputy Attorney General David Margolis who found that Yoo showed "poor judgment" but did not violate ethical standards.[49][50] Commentators have noted that the memos omitted key relevant precedents, including a Texas precedent under then-Governor George W. Bush when the state convicted and sentenced to prison for 10 years a county sheriff for waterboarding a criminal suspect.[51] Then Governor Bush did not issue a pardon for the sheriff.[51]

[joeydb]

"because either we live under the rule of law or we don't."

Do you acknowledge that your simplistic logic will lead to the destruction of this country?

The Constitution is not a suicide pact.

Laws themselves are used within a civilized society to govern and ensure justice. They do not apply to what is done to defend that society from those who would destroy it.

You cannot give terrorists and the enemies of the country the same rights as its citizens. The Constitution only applies to citizens -- that much is very clear.

The first amendment means that an American has the right to flush a copy of the Koran down the toilet if he so wishes. Or the Bible. Or the Dead Sea Scrolls.

Would you like to test that? I dare you. There will be a "fotwa" on your head in minutes of the story airing. Or try drawing a notional political cartoon of their Prophet Mohommed. Interestingly, it wouldn't matter if the cartoon is "pro" or "con" -- you'd be executed in either case.

Yet you want to play "patty cake" with these guys. How would you solve the ultimate puzzle:

"There is a nuclear bomb rigged to go off below an American city. A captured Al Qaeda operative has been confirmed to know where it is, when it will go off, and how it's going to be triggered."

What do you do? Do you read him "his rights" even though he is not a citizen and is an enemy of the country, and allow millions of Americans to die? How about if the nuke is in your home town, threatens your wife, your kids?

Don't give me the weasel answer and change the subject. Tell me -- "WHAT DO YOU DO??" I want to know.

[hi_im_god]

Originally Posted by joeydb

"because either we live under the rule of law or we don't."

Do you acknowledge that your simplistic logic will lead to the destruction of this country?

The Constitution is not a suicide pact.

Laws themselves are used within a civilized society to govern and ensure justice. They do not apply to what is done to defend that society from those who would destroy it.

You cannot give terrorists and the enemies of the country the same rights as its citizens. The Constitution only applies to citizens -- that much is very clear.

The first amendment means that an American has the right to flush a copy of the Koran down the toilet if he so wishes. Or the Bible. Or the Dead Sea Scrolls.

Would you like to test that? I dare you. There will be a "fotwa" on your head in minutes of the story airing. Or try drawing a notional political cartoon of their Prophet Mohommed. Interestingly, it wouldn't matter if the cartoon is "pro" or "con" -- you'd be executed in either case.

Yet you want to play "patty cake" with these guys. How would you solve the ultimate puzzle:

"There is a nuclear bomb rigged to go off below an American city. A captured Al Qaeda operative has been confirmed to know where it is, when it will go off, and how it's going to be triggered."

What do you do? Do you read him "his rights" even though he is not a citizen and is an enemy of the country, and allow millions of Americans to die? How about if the nuke is in your home town, threatens your wife, your kids?

Don't give me the weasel answer and change the subject. Tell me -- "WHAT DO YOU DO??" I want to know.

omg dude. you watch too much jack bauer.

why does every conversation about torture devolve into a bad 24 plot?

was there a nuclear bomb under an american city? did i miss that?

[hi_im_god]

it's pretty amusing that conservatives can hold in the same head the idea that signing a law is now an impeachable offense but a president authorizing tortue, kidnapping and domestic surveillance isn't.

me: how do you do that?
angry conservative: you must love terrorists.
me: huh?
angry conservative: you hate this country and want the terrorists to win.
me: what are you talking about?
angry conservative: you're a despicable low life scumbag piece of dirt incapable of thinking for yourself. you hate america. you're a cretineous terroist loving dupe of the msm!
me: i'm outta here...
angry conservative: what? i'm only trying to have a dialog.

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by hi_im_god

it's pretty amusing that conservatives can hold in the same head the idea that signing a law is now an impeachable offense but a president authorizing tortue, kidnapping and domestic surveillance isn't.

me: how do you do that?
angry conservative: you must love terrorists.
me: huh?
angry conservative: you hate this country and want the terrorists to win.
me: what are you talking about?
angry conservative: you're a despicable low life scumbag piece of dirt incapable of thinking for yourself. you hate america. you're a cretineous terroist loving dupe of the msm!
me: i'm outta here...
angry conservative: what? i'm only trying to have a dialog.

lol, outside of Nascar, that is not how it goes.

And I hate the Patriot act (who the current President is also guilty keeping the Patriot Act going). But I do believe we should profile Muslims. And I dont find waterboarding foreign terrorists who could have knowledge of other attacks to be a big deal, I would actually hope we would go all Jack Bauer on Al Queda & the Taliban.

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by hi_im_god

because either we live under the rule of law or we don't.

did the constitution not survive 9/11? was it a casualty too?

you don't want to give someone the power to pick and choose the times that we have rights.

]

I guess this is the big difference... I dont consider foreign terrorists to be part of "we".

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by joeydb

It's the liberals that are the buffoons. They're the ones who can't build anything, but always try to take over what someone else achieved. Want an example? Pick any of the major cities in this country run by Democrats. They're all dying. Detroit, Philly, New York -- hell...forget cities...how about the whole state of California.

.

New York is dying? Really? I was up there a couple of weekends ago. Seemed pretty alive to me.

Please tell me what you mean when you say that New York City is "dying".

This should be interesting.

[GBBob]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

New York is dying? Really? I was up there a couple of weekends ago. Seemed pretty alive to me.

Please tell me what you mean when you say that New York City is "dying".

This should be interesting.

And isn't the "Mayor" of California a Republican?

[alysheba4]

thats what he ran as......

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by alysheba4

thats what he ran as......

He's a terrorist!

[Gaelic Storm]

Originally Posted by joeydb

Too bad water boarding is not torture, despite Mr. Obama's opinion. Where was there kidnapping? That's a new one. If by domestic spying, you mean NSA listening in on terrorists calling operatives within this country, that's quite a stretch.

Where was the sense of proportion shown by Michael Moore, Cindy Sheehan, Al Gore "HE BETRAYED THIS COUNTRY! HE PLAYED ON OUR FEARS!!!"...remember any of that?

It's the liberals that are the buffoons. They're the ones who can't build anything, but always try to take over what someone else achieved. Want an example? Pick any of the major cities in this country run by Democrats. They're all dying. Detroit, Philly, New York -- hell...forget cities...how about the whole state of California.

Your worst nightmare is that the sleeping dragon has woken up to how empty and counterproductive to progress liberalism really is.

Not taking sides or anything but just want to point out NYC hasn't had a dem mayor in 16 years.

[GBBob]

Originally Posted by Gaelic Storm

Not taking sides or anything but just want to point out NYC hasn't had a dem mayor in 16 years.

Stop posting facts