Question re: Sky Mesa

[Echo Farm]

The big question: Is Jas' avatar a self portrait?

[Cannon Shell]

Who are you measuring Sky Mesa against?

He was the leading second crop stallion in 2008 and was the second leading third crop sire last year.

His oldest horses are only 5 years old so you are judging him on three crops of horses.

He had 74 winners last year
His runners have earned $10 million dollars after a soft 1st year of only 500k.

General Quarters (Gr1)
Terrain (Gr3)
Sky Diva (Gr1)
Skylighter (gr2)
Storm Mesa (gr2)
Satans Quick Chick (gr2)
Third Dawn (sw/gsp)
Sky Haven (sw/gsp)
Beethoven (sw/gsp)
Thiskyhasnolimit (sw/gsp)
Matchless orinda (sw)
Sky Mystic (sw)
Join in the Dance (gsp)
Processors Turf (gsp)
Formidible (gsp)
Stealin kisses (gsp)
Argyle Pink (gsp)

his yearlings averaged 88k last year
his 2 yos in training avg 100k last year and 248k this year


Yeah he sucks

[Betsy]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Who are you measuring Sky Mesa against?

He was the leading second crop stallion in 2008 and was the second leading third crop sire last year.

His oldest horses are only 5 years old so you are judging him on three crops of horses.

He had 74 winners last year
His runners have earned $10 million dollars after a soft 1st year of only 500k.

General Quarters (Gr1)
Terrain (Gr3)
Sky Diva (Gr1)
Skylighter (gr2)
Storm Mesa (gr2)
Satans Quick Chick (gr2)
Third Dawn (sw/gsp)
Sky Haven (sw/gsp)
Beethoven (sw/gsp)
Thiskyhasnolimit (sw/gsp)
Matchless orinda (sw)
Sky Mystic (sw)
Join in the Dance (gsp)
Processors Turf (gsp)
Formidible (gsp)
Stealin kisses (gsp)
Argyle Pink (gsp)

his yearlings averaged 88k last year
his 2 yos in training avg 100k last year and 248k this year


Yeah he sucks

Just what is your problem? I asked a perfectly reasonable question and was polite in doing so; I don't need a medal for that, but I sure as heck don't deserve the kind of response you gave me. Yeah, that sure is a list of great horses. Most of them are mediocre and if they were in graded stakes races, you wouldn't give them any sort of shot. Formidable? Is he high on your list of top sprinters this year? Seriously, take any stallion and he's going to have horses that placed in stakes. Most of this board thinks Friesan Fire is a joke - at best a grade 3 horse, and even at that, only at the Fair Grounds. What does that make GQ? Are you going to tell me he's a top class horse? Skylighter won a weak grade 2 and Storm Mesa couldn't beat grade 1 fillies every time she ran in a grade 1 race. Join in the Dance hasn't won in a dogs age; what's so special about him? You make it sound like this list is full of top horses - it's not.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Betsy

Just what is your problem? I asked a perfectly reasonable question and was polite in doing so; I don't need a medal for that, but I sure as heck don't deserve the kind of response you gave me. Yeah, that sure is a list of great horses. Most of them are mediocre and if they were in graded stakes races, you wouldn't give them any sort of shot. Formidable? Is he high on your list of top sprinters this year? Seriously, take any stallion and he's going to have horses that placed in stakes. Most of this board thinks Friesan Fire is a joke - at best a grade 3 horse, and even at that, only at the Fair Grounds. What does that make GQ? Are you going to tell me he's a top class horse? Skylighter won a weak grade 2 and Storm Mesa couldn't beat grade 1 fillies every time she ran in a grade 1 race. Join in the Dance hasn't won in a dogs age; what's so special about him? You make it sound like this list is full of top horses - it's not.

What is wrong with the response? You dont like facts or figures that may support the opposing point of view?

Perhaps you dont think much of the horses on the list which is fine but they are stakes winners and graded stakes placed horses which means they have been able to produce good form at the highest levels of racing. That is tangible and somewhat measurable. It is easy on horseracing boards to say that they suck or arent much but they have outperformed 95% of their peers on the track.

Not to mention that his horses on a whole have earned and the babies sell well for a stallion in the 25-35 range.

Only someone who didnt understand the racing game or breeding business would label Sky Mesa stallion career as anything less than very succcessful.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

It is easy on horseracing boards to say that they suck or arent much but they have outperformed 95% of their peers on the track.

Translation ....

They suck a lot less than others.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

Translation ....

They suck a lot less than others.

On horseracing boards there are only like 8 horses in training that arent "suck worthy"

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

On horseracing boards there are only like 8 horses in training that arent "suck worthy"

I can only think of 7.

[Betsy]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

What is wrong with the response? You dont like facts or figures that may support the opposing point of view?

Perhaps you dont think much of the horses on the list which is fine but they are stakes winners and graded stakes placed horses which means they have been able to produce good form at the highest levels of racing. That is tangible and somewhat measurable. It is easy on horseracing boards to say that they suck or arent much but they have outperformed 95% of their peers on the track.

Not to mention that his horses on a whole have earned and the babies sell well for a stallion in the 25-35 range.

Only someone who didnt understand the racing game or breeding business would label Sky Mesa stallion career as anything less than very succcessful.

I didn't have problem with your post until you added "yeah he sucks" or whatever. I never said he sucked, but I expected Sky Mesa to be a superstar sire and yes, he's disappointed me in that regard. I did later admit that it's possible for him to be a good sire without being a leading sire......Because SM is not a leading sire, that lead me to think he wasn't very good at all. I'm fine with being wrong. Since I adore Indy and Pulpit, believe me, I have every reason to want Sky Mesa to succeed. By the way, did you expect Sky Mesa to be a great sire? If so, has he lived up to your expectations?

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Betsy

I didn't have problem with your post until you added "yeah he sucks" or whatever. I never said he sucked, but I expected Sky Mesa to be a superstar sire and yes, he's disappointed me in that regard. I did later admit that it's possible for him to be a good sire without being a leading sire......Because SM is not a leading sire, that lead me to think he wasn't very good at all. I'm fine with being wrong. Since I adore Indy and Pulpit, believe me, I have every reason to want Sky Mesa to succeed. By the way, did you expect Sky Mesa to be a great sire? If so, has he lived up to your expectations?

Your expectations or mine have nothing to do with the numbers that the horse has posted as a sire so far. As Drugs pointed out his first crop as 2 yo's were slow to develop but they rapidly improved as SM was the leading second crop sire in 2008. Then he backed up that good year with another one last year when he ranked 2nd on the 2009 third crop sire list. That is three years worth of data and two of the three years were outstanding.

It is very difficult for a stallion with three crops to rank real high on the general sire list, especially one like SM who's 2 yos dont do much running early in the year.

[Betsy]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Your expectations or mine have nothing to do with the numbers that the horse has posted as a sire so far. As Drugs pointed out his first crop as 2 yo's were slow to develop but they rapidly improved as SM was the leading second crop sire in 2008. Then he backed up that good year with another one last year when he ranked 2nd on the 2009 third crop sire list. That is three years worth of data and two of the three years were outstanding.

It is very difficult for a stallion with three crops to rank real high on the general sire list, especially one like SM who's 2 yos dont do much running early in the year.

That's fair....I guess I have been hard on him. I apologize for being so snippy as I hate getting into arguments on message boards, but just know that my original post was made in all sincerity. I'm perfectly willing to be proven wrong about something........and it looks like I have.