Dubai Carnival 2010 Discussion

[PatCummings]

Originally Posted by NoChanceToDance

It seems as though a few trainers are already starting to voice their concerns over the Tapeta track.

So far none of the horses who are familiar with the usual dirt surface of Nad Al Sheba can perform to anywhere near the same level as they do on this new Tapeta surface.

I'm interested to see what trainers you speak of...cause as far as I'm concerned, the local horses who've gotten well over Jebel Ali are, for the most part, outclassed with all these shippers. Otherwise, no one else who gets over dirt is running here, just the Jebel Ali runners. And with that, Montpellier ran a cracker today and King of Rome has come on from his initial run at Jebel Ali. The Carnival classes up the joint and even more horses are there this year than before, which makes the competition tough.

[The Bid]

Tolu said jardim couldn't handle the surface. You can see him being scrubbed on 400 meters out. He's trained poorly over it, and he ran poorly over it. No trditional dirt horses will handle tapeta, it's the turfiest of all the paper mâché tracks.

Only time will tell how this surface holds up to the climate. My guess is it will be tore out inside 4 years

[PatCummings]

Originally Posted by The Bid

Tolu said jardim couldn't handle the surface. You can see him being scrubbed on 400 meters out. He's trained poorly over it, and he ran poorly over it. No trditional dirt horses will handle tapeta, it's the turfiest of all the paper mâché tracks.

Only time will tell how this surface holds up to the climate. My guess is it will be tore out inside 4 years

"Only time will tell..."

Maybe....

But it has put up with the equivalent of four Dubai summers, three at Al Quoz and one on the Meydan training track. Tapeta is SO dissimilar to any of the other synthetic surfaces, it's uncanny. And, after all, you know how good those South American dirt tracks are...

[The Bid]

Took them a couple seasons to start falling apart ocer here pat. They were all great, all the morons here loved them. Now all the idiots are crying about them.

As for the south American dirt courses...... They aren't the best but they are "traditional" dirt. A traditional dirt horse simply will not handle tapeta. I'm sure it's great for the carnival because more European horses can transition, possibly hold their form on tapeta. Whereas on the dirt they would stink up the joint

I'm a huge fan of international racing. I love seeing all the good horses converge, but essentially this is a turf festival

[NoChanceToDance]

They have tested the surface significantly in regards to the climate, so I doubt that will ever be a problem...... And I cannot see them ripping it out without serious incidient beforehand as the negative press would be HUGE.

Pat,

Both Suroor and Barton have said that proven dirt specialists don't seem to handle it. Suroor wasn't complaining, he just said that after the disappointments of Midshipman and My Indy.

However, Barton was livid today - he said it was pointless buying the horses he has for the carnival as they are nearly all dirt horses and they won't handle it. I didn't see/read the interview but my mate said that he almost threatened not to run another horse on the Tapeta surface as it is so turf friendly, and would suit very few of his horses.

More and more people will begin to make concerns if this does continue to happen.

I'm all for synthetic surfaces as they have been proven to be safer for both horse and jockey, the kickback is much reduced and it seems to be a fair surface, but it acts so much like turf. I expected it to bring turf horses and dirt horses together on a surface both types of horse could handle well (and I believe that is their main reason for choosing Tapeta) however, it is almost like turf itself.

[The Bid]

All due respect it needs to be ran on and groomed to significantly test it. All the artificials breakdown, tapeta, whether it's in Dubai or on mars will do the same.

We have had 3-4 years of that junk over here. Horses still Breakdown at the same rate. Add to the equation it negates all the speed we have bred into our horses it's pretty comical it was ever installed. Curlin is lucky he was in Dubai while it was dirt, otherwise some 9 year old euro turf horse would be ripping his head off on "dirt"

I'm all against artificial surfaces. It does absolutely nothing but add another useless vAriable to the game.

[NoChanceToDance]

Originally Posted by The Bid

All due respect it needs to be ran on and groomed to significantly test it. All the artificials breakdown, tapeta, whether it's in Dubai or on mars will do the same.

We have had 3-4 years of that junk over here. Horses still Breakdown at the same rate. Add to the equation it negates all the speed we have bred into our horses it's pretty comical it was ever installed. Curlin is lucky he was in Dubai while it was dirt, otherwise some 9 year old euro turf horse would be ripping his head off on "dirt"

I'm all against artificial surfaces. It does absolutely nothing but add another useless vAriable to the game.

Horses do NOT break down at the same rate. I'm tired of having the same argument, it's been proven time and time again that it is a safer surface in all weather conditions.

Michael Dickenson has changed the tapeta surface that is at Meydan to make sure it will stand the climate. It is the same mix that has been at Godolphin's training centre over there (which still looks as good as new) the only slight difference I believe is the wax, which is specifically designed to cope with high temperatures. This wax has not been used on any other Tapeta surface so far, but significant testing has been carried out.

Yes, I'd prefer to see a surface, which brings turf and dirt horses closer together, but that the moment, I think it is almost impossible given that there is such a difference between the different types of horses.

I hear a lot of people in America moaning about biases and the state of the surface altogether. Fact is, if you want the tracks to be speed favouring or closer friendly, you can prepare them accordingly. There isn't enough preparation at the AW tracks in the States, and many of them did not increase drainage because of the extra cost - that is their problem. The AW tracks over here have done a magnificent job, breakdowns are very, very rare, kickback is minimal and most of all, it's fair, very fair. This is achieved by preparing the tracks and 'working' on them to produce the ideal, safe, surface.

May I suggest that the reason for the breakdowns in America is due to the weakness of the breed and the reliance of pain relieving substances and other such drugs and these breakdowns would have happened on any surface, the statistics certainly point to that as North America is the only country to have had any kind of injury related problems on synthetic tracks.

[brockguy]

As much as I like Presvis, surely the race won't suit him tomorrow? Add in the fact that he won't be near 100% and he is one of the worst odds on shots I've seen! If there is a race in Zulu Chief, this is it!!

[NoChanceToDance]

Originally Posted by brockguy

As much as I like Presvis, surely the race won't suit him tomorrow? Add in the fact that he won't be near 100% and he is one of the worst odds on shots I've seen! If there is a race in Zulu Chief, this is it!!

I agree, mate. This would seem like a perfect prep run to me and wouldn't surprise me to see him given a very easy time.

I think Ajtebi will control things from the front and turn things into a sprint, which I don't think will suit Presvis or Zulu Chief (who might just be outclassed).

[PatCummings]

Originally Posted by NoChanceToDance

They have tested the surface significantly in regards to the climate, so I doubt that will ever be a problem...... And I cannot see them ripping it out without serious incidient beforehand as the negative press would be HUGE.

Pat,

Both Suroor and Barton have said that proven dirt specialists don't seem to handle it. Suroor wasn't complaining, he just said that after the disappointments of Midshipman and My Indy.

However, Barton was livid today - he said it was pointless buying the horses he has for the carnival as they are nearly all dirt horses and they won't handle it. I didn't see/read the interview but my mate said that he almost threatened not to run another horse on the Tapeta surface as it is so turf friendly, and would suit very few of his horses.

More and more people will begin to make concerns if this does continue to happen.

I'm all for synthetic surfaces as they have been proven to be safer for both horse and jockey, the kickback is much reduced and it seems to be a fair surface, but it acts so much like turf. I expected it to bring turf horses and dirt horses together on a surface both types of horse could handle well (and I believe that is their main reason for choosing Tapeta) however, it is almost like turf itself.

Jerry Barton still livid? I was shocked she went off at 30-1 here in the US. Great start to the morning.

[NoChanceToDance]

Barton might look a bit silly today, I think he stayed away from doing interviews!

Still can't understand all of the money for the De Kock filly today, she is good but he has said for several days about her set back she faced in Dubai and would prefer running over further. She was actually my lay today, as was Secrecy, who at evens was an awful price for a horse who was coming off the back of an average handicap win - insane!

Presvis at 2/7, as well........ there are some crazy, crazy people around the world betting on that sort of tosh!

[PatCummings]

Originally Posted by The Bid

Took them a couple seasons to start falling apart ocer here pat. They were all great, all the morons here loved them. Now all the idiots are crying about them.

As for the south American dirt courses...... They aren't the best but they are "traditional" dirt. A traditional dirt horse simply will not handle tapeta. I'm sure it's great for the carnival because more European horses can transition, possibly hold their form on tapeta. Whereas on the dirt they would stink up the joint

I'm a huge fan of international racing. I love seeing all the good horses converge, but essentially this is a turf festival

I think it is WAYYYYYYY too soon to tell, overall. I don't know why Barton is so livid. Their barn wasn't hot on El Amarillista and Naval Officer went on turf. Their only starter last week was a relative longshot in Al Samha.

Midshipman didn't handle the Tapeta? I think he was a bit short and might have been craving the lasix in the final furlong. He seemed to get over it fine, in my eye...and I lost a bunch of multi-race bets because he failed...but failure is an overstatement. He won the Breeders' Cup Juvenile over synthetic...so he's a dirt horse?

THERE IS NO KICKBACK ON THIS SURFACE, NONE. CAPS INTENDED.

There is something flying on this board right now, but it isn't Tapeta.

This track has been relatively even through the 14 races held on it thus far...with very few noticable, sustainable bias patterns.