Jerry Moss just said....

[tector]

Originally Posted by prudery

It is a great quote, but it does not apply to me, whom I am sure the reference was to ...

After the Woodward of Sept 09, the remainder of Sept, Oct 09, Nov 09 and Dec09 are of course, all of THAT year ...

The time mentioned off in '10 was to correlate the total time off for Rachel's layoff in relation to Zenyatta's ...

Nothing clownish ..

The original poster and I apparently had some communication problems ...

Nowhere did I mention " punishing " a HOY ..

Wittgenstein is also an interetsing reference--ComStu 250 if I am remembering right ..

I am from New York ...

I addressed nothing to you. Whining about layoffs is for dopes, period. Horses are laid off as long as their connections feel is necessary. No one here has the slightest basis to second guess such a decision.

What relevance any of this has to HOY is beyond me.

[prudery]

Originally Posted by tector

I addressed nothing to you. Whining about layoffs is for dopes, period. Horses are laid off as long as their connections feel is necessary. No one here has the slightest basis to second guess such a decision.

What relevance any of this has to HOY is beyond me.

I was responding to Da Truth who apparently found some relevance , I didn't either ...

Fair enough on the response not to me ..

[DaTruth]

Originally Posted by prudery

I was responding to Da Truth who apparently found some relevance , I didn't either ...

Fair enough on the response not to me ..

You were the one who found it relevant. Why else would you even bring it up mere hours after RA was crowned HOY.

[prudery]

Originally Posted by DaTruth

You were the one who found it relevant. Why else would you even bring it up mere hours after RA was crowned HOY.

Really I didn't--I mentioned the layoff parallel in reference to my post that Rachel might not be ready for a meeting with Zenyatta in the Apple Blossom , and I said that the layoff would be the same that Zenyatta was criticised for the year before..

You brought up the HOY reference .. And it has nothing to do with hours after Rachel's win ... I havbe NO wish to take anything from Rachel

I am looking forward to their meeting and stated that Rachel likely will not be in the Apple Blossom because she needs more time ...

Read my posts ..

Sorry I do not wish to argue any more than I wish to be misinterpreted ..

That's all folks ..

[tector]

Originally Posted by prudery

I was responding to Da Truth who apparently found some relevance , I didn't either ...

Fair enough on the response not to me ..

OK by me. And to be complete, layoffs could be relevant to HOY if you are laid off so long you can only make 3 or 4 races that year. In that case you are backing yourself into a corner.

But I don't get the excitement about RA laying off, for example. If she needs to wait until June to come back, then she does. As I said, that might make a 2010 HOY difficult, unless she came back ran lights out in some top tier races.

Zenyatta's problem was that she ran in only one race that anyone outside of insular CA racing fans cares about--and that one, like all the rest, was on plastic. It was just too limited a campaign.

By contrast, RA ran in several races that everybody cares about--the Oaks, the Preakness, the Haskell, the Woodward. Everybody knows these races.

And they are on dirt.

To me, that is pretty much all there was to this choice. The rest was hot air.

[prudery]

Originally Posted by tector

OK by me. And to be complete, layoffs could be relevant to HOY if you are laid off so long you can only make 3 or 4 races that year. In that case you are backing yourself into a corner.

But I don't get the excitement about RA laying off, for example. If she needs to wait until June to come back, then she does. As I said, that might make a 2010 HOY difficult, unless she came back ran lights out in some top tier races.

Zenyatta's problem was that she ran in only one race that anyone outside of insular CA racing fans cares about--and that one, like all the rest, was on plastic. It was just too limited a campaign.

By contrast, RA ran in several races that everybody cares about--the Oaks, the Preakness, the Haskell, the Woodward. Everybody knows these races.

And they are on dirt.

To me, that is pretty much all there was to this choice. The rest was hot air.

There is no " excitement " for me in Rachel's layoff, and if these two meet, it should be under optimum conditions for both ...

I was merely responding--and NOT defensively--that Zenyatta got some flak for her delay ...

I have never refuted that Rachel ran more, beat males more and did it on dirt at age three .. She was legit to be a contender and a winner of HOY ...

I can pick apart some of her races and do not agree with some of the analyses of said races, and I cared at least as much for the Alabama, the Travers, and the JCGC as the ones you mentioned , but that is another issue ..

As a Zenyatta fan--called a tard by some here--I am realistic enough to accept a thinner campaign on a non-traditional surface as a valid critique ..

Though Zenyatta may be flawless, the pathway to accolades was not ..

I would have preferred more dirt, more males , more cowbell, but I had no hand in it ...

[tector]

Originally Posted by prudery

There is no " excitement " for me in Rachel's layoff, and if these two meet, it should be under optimum conditions for both ...

I was merely responding--and NOT defensively--that Zenyatta got some flak for her delay ...

I have never refuted that Rachel ran more, beat males more and did it on dirt at age three .. She was legit to be a contender and a winner of HOY ...

I can pick apart some of her races and do not agree with some of the analyses of said races, and I cared at least as much for the Alabama, the Travers, and the JCGC as the ones you mentioned , but that is another issue ..

As a Zenyatta fan--called a tard by some here--I am realistic enough to accept a thinner campaign on a non-traditional surface as a valid critique ..

Though Zenyatta may be flawless, the pathway to accolades was not ..

I would have preferred more dirt, more males , more cowbell, but I had no hand in it ...

Well, I can't speak for others, all I can say is that I never criticized the layoff for Zenyatta per se. But it did leave them just a few races, and they chose those races way too conservatively, until the last one.

Really, there are only a handful of non-turf (can't call them dirt) CA races that have cachet throughout the country--and part of that cachet relates back to when they were contested on dirt:

Big Cap
SA Derby
Hollywood Gold Cup
Pacific Classic

The Ancient Title and Goodwood used to be held in very high regard as BC preps, on dirt. Now they are only relevant for a plastic BC, which I don't expect to see again soon, especially if SA goes back to dirt (but then both of these preps will be back on dirt, too).

That's about it. The Malibu, Pat Obrien, etc--some people know them, some don't. And the whole slew of "san" and "santa" races are just a jumble to people who didn't grow up watching them. And almost nobody ships into them. Everybody ships to the Haskell, for example.

[prudery]

Originally Posted by tector

Well, I can't speak for others, all I can say is that I never criticized the layoff for Zenyatta per se. But it did leave them just a few races, and they chose those races way too conservatively, until the last one.

Really, there are only a handful of non-turf (can't call them dirt) CA races that have cachet throughout the country--and part of that cachet relates back to when they were contested on dirt:

Big Cap
SA Derby
Hollywood Gold Cup
Pacific Classic

The Ancient Title and Goodwood used to be held in very high regard as BC preps, on dirt. Now they are only relevant for a plastic BC, which I don't expect to see again soon, especially if SA goes back to dirt (but then both of these preps will be back on dirt, too).

That's about it. The Malibu, Pat Obrien, etc--some people know them, some don't. And the whole slew of "san" and "santa" races are just a jumble to people who didn't grow up watching them. And almost nobody ships into them. Everybody ships to the Haskell, for example.

I grew up watching a lot of them but the sans and santas do smudge together...

The big ones sans Derby you mentioned would have been a good pinata for Zenyatta to take a stab at ---lots of quality history and prestige ...

Shipping to California does seem to be a thing of the widening past..

Bid and even Cigar seem light years off now ...

Sadly agree ...

Again , thinking outside the box, i think Gio Ponti was horse of the year. He only won two awards last night, first time in thirty years.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by arizonadave

Again , thinking outside the box, i think Gio Ponti was horse of the year. He only won two awards last night, first time in thirty years.

much as i like him, i have to disagree. thought he had a good year, and was one of the best, but no way he had a better year than the filly.

[philcski]

Originally Posted by arizonadave

Again , thinking outside the box, i think Gio Ponti was horse of the year. He only won two awards last night, first time in thirty years.

Had he finished the job in the Turf Cup instead of getting beat by a 100-1 shot and also won the BCC, then you would have a legitimate argument. Otherwise... no.

Originally Posted by tector

In some ways this is beginning to remind me of 1990, when EVERYBODY was salivating over EG and SS coming back (of course they had a tremendous 4 race real rivalry from the year before, not just a battle on paper like now).

It was an enormous dud. EG didn't show up until May and was done by the 4th of July. SS ran twice in June and was done. They never met in 1990.

If the same happened here it would not surprise me.

I hope you're wrong but it is a real possibility.
Didn't Criminal Type win the 1990 HOY?

[lemoncrush]

I don't mean to be on the fence, but I think both deserved the award and have no problem with Rachel winning it.

However, if the Zenyatta camp is pissed, the best thing they can do this year is map out a campaign that will erase any doubts about her ability to ship and win races out of town facing better competiton than the same overmatched mares in California over and over again.

It would be ideal if at least one of the races this summer was against males in a handicap race.