Tampa Downs lowering takeout, minimums on exotics

[SlewsMyHero]

Originally Posted by NTamm1215

Let's do a simulation:

Player A plays $24 pick 3's at Tampa. He is a losing player and gets $110 back for each $120 bet in the pick 3's.

Player B plays at a track those same pick 3's in $24 bets, but at this track, the pick 3's have a 25% takeout.

What happens?

Player "A" at Tampa with the local rebate and lower takeout bets $118.50 for a return of $110, therefore experiencing bankroll shrinkage of $8.50 for each 5 bet sequence. Player "B" bets a full $120 for a return of $101.85 @ a 25% rake therefore loses $18.15 for each 5 bet sequence.

The Tampa player can churn $2808 (118 bets) before hitting ruin. Player "B" at the high takeout track will churn $1320 (55 bets) before going broke. The track nets $491.40 from player "A" (17.5% of $2808) and $330.00 from player "B" (25% of 1320).

In effect, you can play twice as long at Tampa with your bankroll as you can at the high takeout track!
http://blog.horseplayersassociation....trying-to.html

NT

Why is this so damn difficult for other track execs and state legislators to understand. The example above is crystal clear. While it is theoretical, it is sound. The player can hang in longer, churning more dollars through the windows, and the track(and State) makes more revenue. Hello!

I love Tampa Bay Downs. It became my favorite of all tracks a few years ago when they installed their turf course. Brilliant moves by management.

[Scav]

Tampa might understand takeout, but they are complete morons for changing their schedule around and not running on Tuesdays, going up against NY and Gulfstream day in and day out is going to hurt their bottom line

[Bigsmc]

Originally Posted by Scav

Tampa might understand takeout, but they are complete morons for changing their schedule around and not running on Tuesdays, going up against NY and Gulfstream day in and day out is going to hurt their bottom line

[NTamm1215]

Originally Posted by Scav

Tampa might understand takeout, but they are complete morons for changing their schedule around and not running on Tuesdays, going up against NY and Gulfstream day in and day out is going to hurt their bottom line

I haven't crunched the numbers but sometimes two slices of a 20" pizza is better than a whole personal 8". I went with a pizza analogy with you being Mr. Chicago now.

My point being that there are so few simulcast dollars in play on Tuesdays.

NT

[10 pnt move up]

Its nice they lowered them but man those are some really high take rates compared to other circuits...isnt socal 16% WPS and 20% exotics? I think Ky may be lower than that.

[ateamstupid]

Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up

Its nice they lowered them but man those are some really high take rates compared to other circuits...isnt socal 16% WPS and 20% exotics? I think Ky may be lower than that.

17.5% WPS may be a tad high, but it's far from 'really high'. Gulfstream and Fair Grounds are both 17%, while Turfway is 17.5% as well. Calder is 18%.

Meanwhile, 19% on horizontals is vastly better than anything else running this winter. The only tracks that even come close are GP at 20% and HOL/SA at 20 and change.

[golfer]

If the racing weren't so cheap (most of the time) and the jockey colony so horrifying (all the time), this might be one of the top tracks in the country.

[SlewsMyHero]

Originally Posted by golfer

If the racing weren't so cheap (most of the time) and the jockey colony so horrifying (all the time), this might be one of the top tracks in the country.

Other than Saratog/Belmont, Keeneland/Churchill and So. California, what track doesn't run "cheap" races? Even So. Cal is running some pretty cheap races these days. I like the Tampa product. Aren't full, competitive fields what every horseplayer wants?

[golfer]

Originally Posted by SlewsMyHero

Other than Saratog/Belmont, Keeneland/Churchill and So. California, what track doesn't run "cheap" races? Even So. Cal is running some pretty cheap races these days. I like the Tampa product. Aren't full, competitive fields what every horseplayer wants?

Which is why I tend to focus my wagering on NY/KY/Gulfstream. I do plan on following the Tampa meet more closely this year than in previous years, but I have found these full, competitive fields of cheap horses to be very unpredictable. Which is certainly the nature of the cheaper claiming races everywhere.

There is no defending the quality of the jockey colony.

[GPK]

Great news all around, especially .50 cent pick 4.

Other than the turf races at Gulfstream, TBD is the only winter racing that really exists for me...unless you exclude Derby Hall

[Bigsmc]

Originally Posted by golfer

Which is why I tend to focus my wagering on NY/KY/Gulfstream. I do plan on following the Tampa meet more closely this year than in previous years, but I have found these full, competitive fields of cheap horses to be very unpredictable. Which is certainly the nature of the cheaper claiming races everywhere.

There is no defending the quality of the jockey colony.

The jockey colony is awful, but knowing their strengths and weeknesses can give you a huge edge.

There are very few jocks there that can time a two turn race properly. Unless they are on a loose frontrunner, they can't win.

As a horseplayer, you do have to live with some pretty horrible rides from time to time, but you take notes and hope that horse comes back with a better jock next time.

[Bigsmc]

Originally Posted by NTamm1215

I haven't crunched the numbers but sometimes two slices of a 20" pizza is better than a whole personal 8". I went with a pizza analogy with you being Mr. Chicago now.

My point being that there are so few simulcast dollars in play on Tuesdays.

NT

I don't have any numbers to go on (just my horrible memory), but I recall TBD raving about their Tuesday handle when they started running regularly on Tuesdays 7 or 8 years ago. They actually ran a Stake on Tuesday (moved from a Saturday) one year that had the weekend warriors howling because they couldn't see it.

Perhaps those great Tuesday numbers slipped the past few years...

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Bigsmc

I don't have any numbers to go on (just my horrible memory), but I recall TBD raving about their Tuesday handle when they started running regularly on Tuesdays 7 or 8 years ago. They actually ran a Stake on Tuesday (moved from a Saturday) one year that had the weekend warriors howling because they couldn't see it.

Perhaps those great Tuesday numbers slipped the past few years...

NYC OTB was a big factor, dont know how or if that has changed.

[gales0678]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

NYC OTB was a big factor, dont know how or if that has changed.

yonkers simulcast is closed on tues afternoon's

[Travis Stone]

The Tuesday switch made a lot of sense for them. Tampa does a great job of managing its product on a day-to-day basis when up against the big guns. They find the right spots to run and often have a compelling race to offer.

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by Travis Stone

The Tuesday switch made a lot of sense for them. Tampa does a great job of managing its product on a day-to-day basis when up against the big guns. They find the right spots to run and often have a compelling race to offer.

I love betting Tampa although with the new wiz kid Jaime P Ness it has lost a bit of its charm.. The opt allowance grass race is at 1 1/16th is my fav race to bet till Belmont opens

[Duvalier]

Originally Posted by freddymo

I love betting Tampa although with the new wiz kid Jaime P Ness it has lost a bit of its charm.. The opt allowance grass race is at 1 1/16th is my fav race to bet till Belmont opens

Is he going back down Tampa? He seems to have found his niche up North.

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by Duvalier

Is he going back down Tampa? He seems to have found his niche up North.

Ipecac:

Jamie Ness earned his first training title in the 2006-07 campaign; this year, the South Dakota native took home his trid straigt training title with 62 wins in 94 days of racing. Ness has experienced great success not only with the existing horses in his barn but with his recent claims as well. “I make my living out of the claiming box,” says Ness of his success with newly acquired horses. “I do my homework and study the horses on and off the track, and I look at the trainers’ tendencies. I don’t have two-year-olds and I don’t have stakes horses. It’s a blue-collar barn so I need to know what I’ve got.” His biggest success story is multiple Tampa Bay Downs stakes winner Lookinforthesecret. Ness claimed Lookinforthesecret for $12,500 at the beginning of the 2006-07 Tampa Bay Downs meet, and within five starts moved the gelding from the claiming ranks to stakes caliber.

Ness gained an interest in horse racing through both his father and grandfather. “My grandfather took me to the track when I was four years old, and I’ve been hooked ever since,” say Ness. He cites his greatest influence in the sport as his father, saying, “My father was a trainer, and I grew up in the summers going to tracks with him to work. Racing got into my blood at an early age. My father is a very good horseman and he showed me how to do it the hard way, without any big owners or big horses.” Ness has had great success with his “blue-collar” horses and though he keeps his barn open to many jockeys, he credits Daniel Centeno as his go-to rider. When he’s not at the barn – “which isn’t often!” he says, he plays basketball at local gyms.

Chuck will be listed as the trainer of record for Ness at TB but he is just the 'beard"

[Bigsmc]

Originally Posted by Duvalier

Is he going back down Tampa? He seems to have found his niche up North.

He has 40 stalls at Tampa.

[31lengths]

Originally Posted by Duvalier

Is he going back down Tampa? He seems to have found his niche up North.

He renewed his some 40 stalls.