Jerry Brown's letter to TDN on HOY discussion

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by Smooth Operator

LOL ... Do you remember what happened in last year's BCC, NTamm1215 … when those two Euros came to Southern Cal and made Curlin look like some overmatched allowance runner?

Twice Over took a 10f G1 in Britain this season ... and beat BCC champion Raven's Pass in a G3 mile last season.

This was a VERY classy 4yo colt which ran his race at Anita ... but still was no match for Z.

This alone speaks volumes about her ability.

And Rip Van Winkle looks like the classic Euro miler, but he still managed to get within a length of superhorse Sea The Stars in a 10f G1 this season.


At any rate, that BCC field was FAR better than anything RA faced this year.


To deny the great undefeated champion mare Zenyatta a HotY award would be an absolute disgrace for the sport, in my opinion...

Yes, obviously Rip Van Winkle ran the exact same race in the BCClassic as he did against Sea The Stars earlier this year.

And it is so hilarious that Einstein flatters Zenyatta now? I mean the BCClassic was obviously Einsteins best race Evah.

I just dont get it!

[Smooth Operator]

Given what happened last year, the two Euros were the real threats going into the contest, Antitrust32.

Turned out Rip didn't want that extra distance, though … looks like he's better suited for eight.

TO proved legit, but simply couldn't hang with the monster mare in the lane.

That place horse is a nice animal too.


At any rate, you just can't give the big prize to a young horse when you have an undefeated champion older horse which took on all comers and prevailed impressively in the biggest unrestricted race of the year. It's just wrong.

But they're gunna make the same mistake they did in '97 when they gave it to some overhyped, overrated 2yo instead of one of those talented older beasts.

Almost did it again in '04 when that 3yo (SJ) which only ever raced against mediocre colts his own age got way too many votes.

Don't get me wrong, the Alexander filly is clearly a quality animal, but she never proved that she could handle the level of competition that Z whipped in the Classic … not even close.

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by Smooth Operator

Given what happened last year, the two Euros were the real threats going into the contest, Antitrust32.

Turned out Rip didn't want that extra distance, though … looks like he's better suited for eight.

TO proved legit, but simply couldn't hang with the monster mare in the lane.

That place horse is a nice animal too.


At any rate, you just can't give the big prize to a young horse when you have an undefeated champion older horse which took on all comers and prevailed impressively in the biggest unrestricted race of the year. It's just wrong.

But they're gunna make the same mistake they did in '97 when they gave it to some overhyped, overrated 2yo instead of one of those talented older beasts.

Almost did it again in '04 when that 3yo (SJ) which only ever raced against mediocre colts his own age got way too many votes.

Don't get me wrong, the Alexander filly is clearly a quality animal, but she never proved that she could handle the level of competition that Z whipped in the Classic … not even close.

i will admit that gio and twice over are better horses than anything Rachel faced. well they are better turf horses, we have no idea how gio or twice over would do on the dirt... and thats the thing.. Rachel is a dirt horse, why is she supposed to run in a non dirt race that is basically the same as turf?

Zenyatta ran an incredible RACE.. she deserves awards & accolades.
Rachel had an incredible YEAR.. The best YEAR of any horse running in the USA (Gio had a great year also but not like Rachel). She deserves horse of the YEAR.

Though I'm completely cool with both horses sharing HOY, if that is possible it should happen this year.

[kgar311]

Originally Posted by Smooth Operator

Given what happened last year, the two Euros were the real threats going into the contest, Antitrust32.

Turned out Rip didn't want that extra distance, though … looks like he's better suited for eight.

TO proved legit, but simply couldn't hang with the monster mare in the lane.

That place horse is a nice animal too.


At any rate, you just can't give the big prize to a young horse when you have an undefeated champion older horse which took on all comers and prevailed impressively in the biggest unrestricted race of the year. It's just wrong.

But they're gunna make the same mistake they did in '97 when they gave it to some overhyped, overrated 2yo instead of one of those talented older beasts.

Almost did it again in '04 when that 3yo (SJ) which only ever raced against mediocre colts his own age got way too many votes.

Don't get me wrong, the Alexander filly is clearly a quality animal, but she never proved that she could handle the level of competition that Z whipped in the Classic … not even close.

If the Classic means everything then why wasn't Ravens Pass HOY last year? I believe he whooped up the eventual HOY in that race too! I think because Curlin had the better YEAR and RP had the better 1 race.
And it will not be a mistake WHEN they give RA HOY

[parsixfarms]

Originally Posted by kgar311

If the Classic means everything then why wasn't Ravens Pass HOY last year? I believe he whooped up the eventual HOY in that race too! I think because Curlin had the better YEAR and RP had the better 1 race.
And it will not be a mistake WHEN they give RA HOY

That's really comparing apples and oranges. Raven's Pass won a single race in North America in 2008. Say what you will about the competition faced by Zenyatta in her pre-Breeders' Cup campaign in 2009, but she did win three North America Grade Is and a Grade II.

[kgar311]

Originally Posted by parsixfarms

That's really comparing apples and oranges. Raven's Pass won a single race in North America in 2008. Say what you will about the competition faced by Zenyatta in her pre-Breeders' Cup campaign in 2009, but she did win three North America Grade Is and a Grade II.

I know why RP didnt win I was just trying to make a comparison. The people in Zenyatta's camp want to throw out her prior four races and all of RA's 8 races and give her HOY based on winning the Classic. It just isnt right to give a horse HOY honors for winning one race. I was just saying if they didnt do it for RP they are not going to do it for Zen.

[parsixfarms]

Originally Posted by kgar311

I know why RP didnt win I was just trying to make a comparison. The people in Zenyatta's camp want to throw out her prior four races and all of RA's 8 races and give her HOY based on winning the Classic. It just isnt right to give a horse HOY honors for winning one race. I was just saying if they didnt do it for RP they are not going to do it for Zen.

Actually, it's just the opposite. I don't think anyone in Zenyatta's camp is advocating that people throw out her three Grade I wins. They are using the fact that she won three other Grade Is to assert that she wasn't the "one-hit wonder" that many of those in the Rachel camp would try to make Zenyatta out to be.

[kgar311]

Originally Posted by parsixfarms

Actually, it's just the opposite. I don't think anyone in Zenyatta's camp is advocating that people throw out her three Grade I wins. They are using the fact that she won three other Grade Is to assert that she wasn't the "one-hit wonder" that many of those in the Rachel camp would try to make Zenyatta out to be.

Are you calling her competition in those 3 races grade 1 caliber??? Come on now those races were grade 1 in name only contested against horses that would be 40k claimers in NY.

[NTamm1215]

Originally Posted by parsixfarms

That's really comparing apples and oranges. Raven's Pass won a single race in North America in 2008. Say what you will about the competition faced by Zenyatta in her pre-Breeders' Cup campaign in 2009, but she did win three North America Grade Is and a Grade II.

I agree but haven't the Zenyatta backers turned this into a Classic vs. Woodward type of deal in a sense?

NT

[parsixfarms]

Originally Posted by NTamm1215

I agree but haven't the Zenyatta backers turned this into a Classic vs. Woodward type of deal in a sense?

In some respects, yes, because it suits their opinion: Zenyatta's win in the Classic was a more impressive win than Rachel's in the Woodward. But that's not all there is to the issue. There are a whole lot of arguments from both sides that I don't find particularly persuasive. And I'm sure that there are some facts that I consider relevant (such as Zenyatta being unbeaten) that others find irrelevant.

[parsixfarms]

Originally Posted by Cardus

You don't mean her career record, do you?

Yes, I do. There is a context to everything.

[Smooth Operator]

Originally Posted by kgar311

If the Classic means everything then why wasn't Ravens Pass HOY last year? I believe he whooped up the eventual HOY in that race too! I think because Curlin had the better YEAR and RP had the better 1 race.
And it will not be a mistake WHEN they give RA HOY

Would be an absolute TRAGEDY if the career undefeated, dual Breeders' Cup and Eclipse-award-winning champion older mare doesn't get the award, kgar311

Let the young Alexander filly take her shot against world-class open competition on her 'preferred surface' at the Downs next fall.

Somehow I doubt she'll get her picture taken after the 10f affair.



By the way, CSC … fine body of work in a thread filled with bad opinions…

[letswastemoney]

Originally Posted by Smooth Operator

Would be an absolute TRAGEDY if the career undefeated, dual Breeders' Cup and Eclipse-award-winning champion older mare doesn't get the award, kgar311

Let the young Alexander filly take her shot against world-class open competition on her 'preferred surface' at the Downs next fall.

Somehow I doubt she'll get her picture taken after the 10f affair.



By the way, CSC … fine body of work in a thread filled with bad opinions…

nothing that happened last year should count towards an argument for HOY this year...

[kgar311]

Originally Posted by Smooth Operator

Would be an absolute TRAGEDY if the career undefeated, dual Breeders' Cup and Eclipse-award-winning champion older mare doesn't get the award, kgar311

Let the young Alexander filly take her shot against world-class open competition on her 'preferred surface' at the Downs next fall.

Somehow I doubt she'll get her picture taken after the 10f affair.



By the way, CSC … fine body of work in a thread filled with bad opinions…

When will you people get this through your thick skulls???????????????????? Its not horse of the career its horse of the year Sherriffs and Co have nobody else to blame but themselves for costing Zen HOY. All they had to do was either put her in the Pacific Classic or the Goodwood and won that respective race and they maybe would of had a shot at the title. But they didnt, they were chicken s*it muther f*ckers. They ducked and dived with this horse throughout her career and it cost her HOY. Case closed, game over she loses, Rachel wins period end of story.

[Travis Stone]

Originally Posted by kgar311

When will you people get this through your thick skulls???????????????????? Its not horse of the career its horse of the year Sherriffs and Co have nobody else to blame but themselves for costing Zen HOY. All they had to do was either put her in the Pacific Classic or the Goodwood and won that respective race and they maybe would of had a shot at the title. But they didnt, they were chicken s*it muther f*ckers. They ducked and dived with this horse throughout her career and it cost her HOY. Case closed, game over she loses, Rachel wins period end of story.

It's not their fault the BC was in their backyard again. I'm willing to bet most people would have stayed put as well. But, in doing so, you're gambling that no one else steps-up with a bigger campaign, which is what happened.

[slotdirt]

Why people keep responding to the troll, and have for 400-odd posts since 2006, is beyond me.