Oak Tree renames the Lady's Secret the Zenyatta

[CSC]

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

Neither beat any great horses, but Rachel took her game with her to multiple tracks (fast and wet) and beat males over and over, while Zenyatta stayed in her backyard and beat up on the same lousy mares all year with the exception of the Classic (still in her backyard of course). This is what makes it an open-and-shut case to me. FFS, they scratched Zenyatta out of the Louisville because the track was wet. That's not a champion.

Ok we talk circles with Z & RA, we know that by now... On a different note is it too much to ask just 1 RA fan to finally admit that the Travers would have been a better test for RA than the Woodward?

[Sightseek]

Originally Posted by CSC

Ok we talk circles with Z & RA, we know that by now... On a different note is it too much to ask just 1 RA fan to finally admit that the Travers was a better test for RA than the Woodward? Can someone just come clean...

If she ran in the Travers and won you would be spinning it that it was because of the sloppy track.

[CSC]

Originally Posted by Sightseek

If she ran in the Travers and won you would be spinning it that it was because of the sloppy track.

And if she also ran in the Belmont, JCGC, Classic and she will blast SB by the same margin next year...And if she can blast him next yr can I say I told you so...It's not my style but I'm sure many wouldn't let me off so easy.

[ateamstupid]

Originally Posted by CSC

Ok we talk circles with Z & RA, we know that by now... On a different note is it too much to ask just 1 RA fan to finally admit that the Travers would have been a better test for RA than the Woodward?

I think it would've been a tougher test, but not for the reasons you think. She crushed Summer Bird a month prior, why would she suddenly have had trouble with him? I think the Woodward was smarter just because I question her ability to go 10 furlongs as effectively as 9. That being said, I think she would've won the Travers too.

Originally Posted by CSC

I have to make one note, Einstein was blasted in the Classic and still finished a respectable 3rd today, I think this is a testament how good a race the Classic was. A much better race than the Woodward is starting to look like and to be impartial(just so BS cannot throw out the bias card) perhaps also the JCGC. The older male division was a joke this year.

Way to contradict yourself. The Classic was awesome, but the older male division was a joke? As much as I like Blame, that was not a very fast race today, so I don't think Einstein should be given extra credit for finishing third.

[CSC]

Originally Posted by ateamstupid
She crushed Summer Bird a month prior

:rolleyes: I can't wait till next year, this is so old. I may take bets.

[QUOTE

Way to contradict yourself. The Classic was awesome, but the older male division was a joke? As much as I like Blame, that was not a very fast race today, so I don't think Einstein should be given extra credit for finishing third.

It isn't? Glad to see you have trouble reading like others here, way to ignore the point, Einstein being blasted in a race Z was much the best in and finishing a respectable 3rd today, where was Bullsbay and Macho Again today...3 weeks ago 2 months ago..Nice try at diverting the conversation.

[ateamstupid]

Originally Posted by CSC

It isn't? Glad to see you have trouble reading like others here, way to ignore the point, Einstein being blasted in a race Z was much the best in and finishing a respectable 3rd today, where was Bullsbay and Macho Again today...3 weeks ago 2 months ago..Nice try at diverting the conversation.

If you could figure out how to use the quote button, I might know what point you were referring to. You do realize Macho Again beat Einstein in the Foster right? Kind of flies in the face of your otherwise ironclad "Einstein beat Macho Again today so Zenyatta is better than Rachel Alexandra" corollary.

[CSC]

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

If you could figure out how to use the quote button, I might know what point you were referring to. You do realize Macho Again beat Einstein in the Foster right? Kind of flies in the face of your otherwise ironclad "Einstein beat Macho Again today so Zenyatta is better than Rachel Alexandra" corollary.

The point is now, what kind of horse is MA. After RA was all out to beat him, he has been blasted by SB, and off a freshening where he was the favorite a well beaten horse today. He was also beaten by a horse that has run decent races on poly and just happened to be a distant loser to Z. Now are all these races absolutely true efforts, probably the answer is yes and no on this one, but even allowing for 1 off effort by both neither has come back to run a race worthy of a Whitney winner or a horse that was held to a higher rep for pushing RA to the limit. Whether one wants to see this or not, today's Clark flattered Z more than it did RA, even if it was arguably a small win.

[ateamstupid]

Originally Posted by CSC

The point is now...

No, the point is cherry-picking races that suit your argument and ignoring races that don't. That's what every one of your arguments entails. So keep waiting until next year.

[CSC]

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

No, the point is cherry-picking races that suit your argument and ignoring races that don't. That's what every one of your arguments entails. So keep waiting until next year.

I'm not sure I am doing anything different than what others are doing, I think I asked which race is looking better now, the Woodward or the Travers? It's a good question when you bring into context of what we are discussing. I'm not sure if we were talking about another horse this be such a big deal. I think it's a worthwhile topic but to mention it you are somehow being dishonest, disingenous, and other not too flattering adjectives I have been called lately.

[ateamstupid]

In the words of BWS, I wonder how we're going to spin Flashing's two G1 wins since getting steamrolled by RA.

[CSC]

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

I
Way to contradict yourself. The Classic was awesome, but the older male division was a joke?

Didn't want to ignore this comment, Summer Bird or any of the other 3 yr old males are not older horses. Obviously the comment didn't include Gio Ponti or the Euro's either. Mostly this 3 yr old crop can be a very good one.

[brianwspencer]

Originally Posted by CSC

Ok we talk circles with Z & RA, we know that by now... On a different note is it too much to ask just 1 RA fan to finally admit that the Travers would have been a better test for RA than the Woodward?

Wait, for her to beat up on the same 3yos she had already ROMPED on would have been a better test than beating older horses? Or wait, sorry, she hadn't crushed the mighty Hold Me Back yet....good point.

Only in your fantasy world, my friend. Only there.

[CSC]

Originally Posted by brianwspencer

Wait, for her to beat up on the same 3yos she had already ROMPED on would have been a better test than beating older horses? Or wait, sorry, she hadn't crushed the mighty Hold Me Back yet....good point.

Only in your fantasy world, my friend. Only there.

Let's be clear she only romped 3 yr old males once this year, no one in their right mind can say that Macho Again & Bullsbay are better than Summer Bird or Quality Road, the beating 3 yr old males reason to me is a roundabout way of saying we are going the easiest route and I'm just not buying the making history point was the sole reason. I'm sure if Cigar or Skip Away had still been around she would have had a reason ready to go in the Alabama also.