Obama: Too much debt could fuel double-dip recession

[GBBob]

Originally Posted by joeydb

OK, I don't doubt you, however, let me ask -- unless you did the accounting yourself, would you have a number on how much it benefitted, both in terms of increased profits and any "jobs saved"?

In the simplest case, let's say you owned the company. You were planning to lay off people, because you had to and the balance sheet was in the red. Then you get a shot in the arm from the government and no longer need to lay people off. That's obviously a legitimate case where you could say jobs were saved. You knew you had to lay people off, you knew how many, you're obviously not deceiving yourself -- that's all real.

Now, go to the more common case where you can't be sure of the validity of any information from the bookkeeping, management or legal arms of the company. Many would argue that the potential for deception is high, saying "Oh yeah, we had jobs saved as a result of the stimulus." That's where a lot of the skepticism comes from on this issue.

But Joey..be honest..you and most of the right wingers won't believe ANYTHING that a Dem or Liberal says. You don't believe in Global Warming, you don't believe that the Stimulus did anything good for anyone, etc. So why would you believe Bigs or anyone else who claims there was a benefit?

[joeydb]

Originally Posted by GBBob

But Joey..be honest..you and most of the right wingers won't believe ANYTHING that a Dem or Liberal says. You don't believe in Global Warming, you don't believe that the Stimulus did anything good for anyone, etc. So why would you believe Bigs or anyone else who claims there was a benefit?

Because the most offensive thing about all this "debt driving spending which is driving more debt" vicious cycle is that there is no math being performed or shown as to how much it actually helped. In other words, the economy itself, without a stimulus package, still has the ability to recover. Some say it would have recovered faster without the stimulus package because the debt load and resulting tax load on the citizens is less. Others say the stimulus helped in a way that the economy alone couldn't do. But nobody is breaking down exactly (or ballpark) how much recovery is from the economy itself versus the stimulus.

For credibility, the supporters of the stimulus and ANY NEW SPENDING must show that math, for all to see. And yes, the liberals who are now in charge are proposing most of the new spending, and cutting nothing from their previous programs. Defense they'd love to cut -- in fact that's the only place they CAN cut, politically. They've been for "less weapons more treaties" for decades. But sometimes the treaties don't work, and the weapons always do, which is why potential adversaries fear the weapons and less so the treaties.

Check this out: http://www.usdebtclock.org/

Both parties should be working to turn that into a national surplus clock.

Global Warming or Global Cooling or Climate change (which happens every season) is a separate issue for the most part, except that all of the global proposals expect America to pay the biggest share and curtail our growth (big surprise) while countries like China, who has trillions to loan to us despite being called a "developing" country, is expected to pay far less, if they feel like it, and if anyone has the guts to enforce that. How you enforce payment on a nuclear-armed country with over a billion people and who is the current leading creditor of the United States is anybody's guess.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by GBBob

But Joey..be honest..you and most of the right wingers won't believe ANYTHING that a Dem or Liberal says. You don't believe in Global Warming, you don't believe that the Stimulus did anything good for anyone, etc. So why would you believe Bigs or anyone else who claims there was a benefit?

Bob
I dont believe the stimilus is worth the money spent because of where the money went and how it was spent not because of who proposed it. If a liberal had come up with an extention of the Bush tax cuts or broader based small-business incentives then i would wholeheartedly get behind it. What was passed had virtually nothing for the jobs creators. And then we scratch our heads when unemployment continues to rise.

[wiphan]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Bob
I dont believe the stimilus is worth the money spent because of where the money went and how it was spent not because of who proposed it. If a liberal had come up with an extention of the Bush tax cuts or broader based small-business incentives then i would wholeheartedly get behind it. What was passed had virtually nothing for the jobs creators. And then we scratch our heads when unemployment continues to rise.

The only good program they came up with was the purchase of mortgage backed securities for the following reasons:
1) the government can actual recoup or make $ on this program as opposed to government spending
2) Most people that own a home could and have benefited from it.
3) I made $ on it