Obama: Too much debt could fuel double-dip recession

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Riot

That's right. Would you have preferred doing nothing and we right now being in a deep depression? Unemployment 18-20%? It's obviously not black and white. There's not an economist I've seen that has said the stimulus hasn't helped, nor that it won't continue to help.

You arent looking very hard

[Cannon Shell]

It is pretty simple why the stimlus package hasnt helped. The vast majority of it wasnt stimlus. This was pointed out by some of us DT economists this Spring and lo and behold we were onto something.

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

It is pretty simple why the stimlus package hasnt helped. The vast majority of it wasnt stimlus. This was pointed out by some of us DT economists this Spring and lo and behold we were onto something.

It certainly hasnt helped Delonte West this season. I was at the game last night. The cavs were shorthanded and that bum still only got on the floor for 20 minutes. I guess its hard to get PT when you are stuck behind luminaries like Anthony Parker and Jamario Moon.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

It certainly hasnt helped Delonte West this season. I was at the game last night. The cavs were shorthanded and that bum still only got on the floor for 20 minutes. I guess its hard to get PT when you are stuck behind luminaries like Anthony Parker and Jamario Moon.

Perhaps you heard he was having some issues and they were slowly working him back? Or maybe you are just insensitive to those with mental health issues. So non-liberal of you.

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Perhaps you heard he was having some issues and they were slowly working him back? Or maybe you are just insensitive to those with mental health issues. So non-liberal of you.

I was the one yelling "delonte, i know a good lawyer".

That is the first time I had ever seen Lebron that close (we were really close to the floor). That is a big man. I was completely in awe of him physically.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

It is pretty simple why the stimlus package hasnt helped. The vast majority of it wasnt stimlus. This was pointed out by some of us DT economists this Spring and lo and behold we were onto something.

But the stimulus package has helped.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Riot

But the stimulus package has helped.

It has? You really think that that was $800 billion dollars well spent? The economy is doing so well because of it? New and existing businesses are being created and expanding, putting people back to work? Where?

[Bigsmc]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

It has? You really think that that was $800 billion dollars well spent? The economy is doing so well because of it? New and existing businesses are being created and expanding, putting people back to work? Where?

The company I work for has actually benefitted from stimulus money.

[joeydb]

Originally Posted by Bigsmc

The company I work for has actually benefitted from stimulus money.

OK, I don't doubt you, however, let me ask -- unless you did the accounting yourself, would you have a number on how much it benefitted, both in terms of increased profits and any "jobs saved"?

In the simplest case, let's say you owned the company. You were planning to lay off people, because you had to and the balance sheet was in the red. Then you get a shot in the arm from the government and no longer need to lay people off. That's obviously a legitimate case where you could say jobs were saved. You knew you had to lay people off, you knew how many, you're obviously not deceiving yourself -- that's all real.

Now, go to the more common case where you can't be sure of the validity of any information from the bookkeeping, management or legal arms of the company. Many would argue that the potential for deception is high, saying "Oh yeah, we had jobs saved as a result of the stimulus." That's where a lot of the skepticism comes from on this issue.

[GBBob]

Originally Posted by joeydb

OK, I don't doubt you, however, let me ask -- unless you did the accounting yourself, would you have a number on how much it benefitted, both in terms of increased profits and any "jobs saved"?

In the simplest case, let's say you owned the company. You were planning to lay off people, because you had to and the balance sheet was in the red. Then you get a shot in the arm from the government and no longer need to lay people off. That's obviously a legitimate case where you could say jobs were saved. You knew you had to lay people off, you knew how many, you're obviously not deceiving yourself -- that's all real.

Now, go to the more common case where you can't be sure of the validity of any information from the bookkeeping, management or legal arms of the company. Many would argue that the potential for deception is high, saying "Oh yeah, we had jobs saved as a result of the stimulus." That's where a lot of the skepticism comes from on this issue.

But Joey..be honest..you and most of the right wingers won't believe ANYTHING that a Dem or Liberal says. You don't believe in Global Warming, you don't believe that the Stimulus did anything good for anyone, etc. So why would you believe Bigs or anyone else who claims there was a benefit?

[Bigsmc]

Originally Posted by joeydb

OK, I don't doubt you, however, let me ask -- unless you did the accounting yourself, would you have a number on how much it benefitted, both in terms of increased profits and any "jobs saved"?

In the simplest case, let's say you owned the company. You were planning to lay off people, because you had to and the balance sheet was in the red. Then you get a shot in the arm from the government and no longer need to lay people off. That's obviously a legitimate case where you could say jobs were saved. You knew you had to lay people off, you knew how many, you're obviously not deceiving yourself -- that's all real.

Now, go to the more common case where you can't be sure of the validity of any information from the bookkeeping, management or legal arms of the company. Many would argue that the potential for deception is high, saying "Oh yeah, we had jobs saved as a result of the stimulus." That's where a lot of the skepticism comes from on this issue.

I don't have numbers, but I know we are much busier in the fourth quarter of this year and steadily hiring. The only thing that has changed from the first three quarters is that we have several stimulus funded (or stimulus assisted) projects.

Increased profits have nothing to do with the package, they have to do with our performance. Also, the bidding for these projects is ravenous so you have to anticipate that the margins will be slightly lower.

*regrets entering the politics/society room*

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Bigsmc

The company I work for has actually benefitted from stimulus money.

That's great. No one said that no business wouldnt benefit. But aas it led to greater employment or long term expansion? If so then feel fortunate, you guys hit the stimilus homerun.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

It has? You really think that that was $800 billion dollars well spent? The economy is doing so well because of it? New and existing businesses are being created and expanding, putting people back to work? Where?

Yeah, I do. I think the $800 billion dollars - most of which has NOT yet been spent, but will be over the next two years - has kept us out of a depression - that alone is pretty damn significant.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Riot

Yeah, I do. I think the $800 billion dollars - most of which has NOT yet been spent, but will be over the next two years - has kept us out of a depression - that alone is pretty damn significant.

Hell there was no depression coming and what has been spent hasn't fended it off. My question is that if an $800 billion dollar package was needed immediately then why is so much money spread over the next two (preelection) years? Couldnt be political could it?

There are so many lies, half and untruths about the entire Wall Street bailout that it makes you wonder if anything coming from the govt is truthful anymore. Now AIG's credit default swaps werent a huge problem????? Now we find out those nasty "unregulated" markets werent in any danger of collapse after all. Will we still need hugely expensive and unnecessary regulation for the CDS market now after the truth has been revealed?

Of course we do. More govt is in our best interests afterall. Even if they make up the story as it goes. At least Wall Street's congressional districts arent made up.

[witchdoctor]

Originally Posted by Riot

But the stimulus package has helped.

In 2015 alone, the estimated interest due - $533 billion - is equal to a third of the federal income taxes expected to be paid that year






http://money.cnn.com/2009/11/19/news...rest/index.htm

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

You arent looking very hard

Like who?

Are any of you guys still in the "we shouldn't have done anything" camp? As I recall, there were not alot of alternative suggestions offered up in the past.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Riot

Like who?

Are any of you guys still in the "we shouldn't have done anything" camp? As I recall, there were not alot of alternative suggestions offered up in the past.

Without rehashing the entire debate, the stimilus package passed by Congress was not universally hailed as you suggest. The problem with the Obama stimilus packages was there was very little actually stimilus money involved.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Without rehashing the entire debate, the stimilus package passed by Congress was not universally hailed as you suggest. The problem with the Obama stimilus packages was there was very little actually stimilus money involved.

I'm talking about here, on Dee Tee.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Riot

I'm talking about here, on Dee Tee.

I believe there was quite a bit of dissent. I guess i will have to slog through the search engine to bring them up.