Jerry Brown's letter to TDN on HOY discussion

[Danzig]

nicely put.

[Sightseek]

[Sightseek]

This is a little blurb from Oppenheim in the TDN (apologies for the strange print, it does that when you copy off a pdf) and I think he fails to realize that most of the people who watch the Breeder's Cup are existing fans of racing - whereas any Triple Crown race (Preakness) is watched by more people who we are trying to reach:

HORSE OF THE YEAR: Interesting comments, and
one thing they really highlight is the question: what are
the criteria for Horse of the Year? Those of us with
votes will be fascinated to refresh our memories when
the NTRA directive on the subject is issued to Eclipse
voters. But here=s a thought--it=s not necessarily about
the fastest horse of the year, or even the horse with
the best form. I=m not for Zenyatta strictly because she
won the GI Breeders= Cup Classic, beating colts and
breaking Personal Ensign=s unbeaten record in the process.
I=m for Zenyatta just as much because, in a sport
that has been threatening to sink without trace from
American public consciousness following Barbaro=s horrible
breakdown in the 2006 GI Preakness, and Eight
Belles=s horrible breakdown after finishing second in the
2008 GI Kentucky Derby, Zenyatta=s win over the colts
in the Breeders= Cup Classic actually got some ink, and
restored a modicum of respectability to our sport in the
wider public eye. She achieved more than even Rachel
did in that hugely important sphere--those Americans
who have only the mildest of interest in whether horse
racing continues to exist in this country or not. That=s
why--unless they tell me that=s not a valid criterion--she
gets my vote.

[Sightseek]

Originally Posted by Sightseek

This is a little blurb from Oppenheim in the TDN (apologies for the strange print, it does that when you copy off a pdf) and I think he fails to realize that most of the people who watch the Breeder's Cup are existing fans of racing - whereas any Triple Crown race (Preakness) is watched by more people who we are trying to reach:

HORSE OF THE YEAR: Interesting comments, and
one thing they really highlight is the question: what are
the criteria for Horse of the Year? Those of us with
votes will be fascinated to refresh our memories when
the NTRA directive on the subject is issued to Eclipse
voters. But here=s a thought--it=s not necessarily about
the fastest horse of the year, or even the horse with
the best form. I=m not for Zenyatta strictly because she
won the GI Breeders= Cup Classic, beating colts and
breaking Personal Ensign=s unbeaten record in the process.
I=m for Zenyatta just as much because, in a sport
that has been threatening to sink without trace from
American public consciousness following Barbaro=s horrible
breakdown in the 2006 GI Preakness, and Eight
Belles=s horrible breakdown after finishing second in the
2008 GI Kentucky Derby, Zenyatta=s win over the colts
in the Breeders= Cup Classic actually got some ink, and
restored a modicum of respectability to our sport in the
wider public eye. She achieved more than even Rachel
did in that hugely important sphere--those Americans
who have only the mildest of interest in whether horse
racing continues to exist in this country or not. That=s
why--unless they tell me that=s not a valid criterion--she
gets my vote.

One should also note, that Smarty Jones probably had more effect on racing than any horse, and Horse of the Year ultimately went to the very best horse...

[Revidere]

Originally Posted by Sightseek

One should also note, that Smarty Jones probably had more effect on racing than any horse, and Horse of the Year ultimately went to the very best horse...

The best horse who ran a total of four times:

Tom Fool
Iselin
Woodward
Breeders Cup Classic

[Sightseek]

Originally Posted by Revidere

The best horse who ran a total of four times:

Tom Fool
Iselin
Woodward
Breeders Cup Classic

I really hope you're not comparing those four races to the snooze-fest leading up to the Classic that Zenyatta ran this year...

[Revidere]

Originally Posted by Sightseek

I really hope you're not comparing those four races to the snooze-fest leading up to the Classic that Zenyatta ran this year...

Nope. It just proved that the Triple Crown races are not the barometer that the writers used.

Ask horses like Silver Charm and Afleet Alex what their exciting Triple Crown campaigns meant to HOY voters.

Sorry those races were snooze-fests for you. What was the Mother Goose?

[pba1817]

This argument is ridiculous...

[Stickhorse]

Originally Posted by Sightseek

This is a little blurb from Oppenheim in the TDN (apologies for the strange print, it does that when you copy off a pdf) and I think he fails to realize that most of the people who watch the Breeder's Cup are existing fans of racing - whereas any Triple Crown race (Preakness) is watched by more people who we are trying to reach:

HORSE OF THE YEAR: Interesting comments, and
one thing they really highlight is the question: what are
the criteria for Horse of the Year? Those of us with
votes will be fascinated to refresh our memories when
the NTRA directive on the subject is issued to Eclipse
voters. But here=s a thought--it=s not necessarily about
the fastest horse of the year, or even the horse with
the best form. I=m not for Zenyatta strictly because she
won the GI Breeders= Cup Classic, beating colts and
breaking Personal Ensign=s unbeaten record in the process.
I=m for Zenyatta just as much because, in a sport
that has been threatening to sink without trace from
American public consciousness following Barbaro=s horrible
breakdown in the 2006 GI Preakness, and Eight
Belles=s horrible breakdown after finishing second in the
2008 GI Kentucky Derby, Zenyatta=s win over the colts
in the Breeders= Cup Classic actually got some ink, and
restored a modicum of respectability to our sport in the
wider public eye. She achieved more than even Rachel
did in that hugely important sphere--those Americans
who have only the mildest of interest in whether horse
racing continues to exist in this country or not. That=s
why--unless they tell me that=s not a valid criterion--she
gets my vote.

[gales0678]

Zenyatta=s win over the colts
in the Breeders= Cup Classic actually got some ink, and
restored a modicum of respectability to our sport in the
wider public eye. She achieved more than even Rachel
did in that hugely important sphere--those Americans
who have only the mildest of interest in whether horse
racing continues to exist in this country or not.

the problem is that those with mild interest in the sport most likely don't know dirt from pro-ride or know very little about it

when you have the BC 2 years in a row on the pro-ride surface and not 1 dirt horse wins the results mean less , thus Zenyatta's win means less , she is a poly track specialist who ducked coming east this year to run on the dirt and faced no competetion to speak of this year .....simply put it would be a tradegy for horseracing if they give any horse , hoy , for winning only on the poly surface

[brianwspencer]

It's curious at best to me why there is so much emotional argument made for Zenyatta.

Those who believe that Rachel deserves the award based on her achievements on the track have trotted out statistic after statistic, talking only about her performances on the track THIS YEAR.

Those who believe Zenyatta deserve it make some flimsy case for her winning it based on the actual racing, mentioning Life Is Sweet running behind her a couple times, mentioning the Grade I Breeders' Cup (Turf) Classic, and then move on to things that have nothing to do at all with racetrack accomplishments. Look at how many people were cheering for her at Santa Anita -- you should have heard it! Look at the press she got! She brought tears to my eyes! She's never lost, even including last year, so she is overdue for a HOY! Mike Smith said she only hit third gear! Jackson is an a$shole and Asmussen is a cheater! If only they had run once past Labor Day, we wouldn't even be having this discussion! Sherriffs threw his hat in the crowd! Didju see that?! Didju see that -- he is so nice and was having so much fun, I cried! Look at how happy I am, it would be a black eye if we didn't give her HOY!

[gales0678]

Originally Posted by brianwspencer

It's curious at best to me why there is so much emotional argument made for Zenyatta.

Those who believe that Rachel deserves the award based on her achievements on the track have trotted out statistic after statistic, talking only about her performances on the track THIS YEAR.

Those who believe Zenyatta deserve it make some flimsy case for her winning it based on the actual racing, mentioning Life Is Sweet running behind her a couple times, mentioning the Grade I Breeders' Cup (Turf) Classic, and then move on to things that have nothing to do at all with racetrack accomplishments. Look at how many people were cheering for her at Santa Anita -- you should have heard it! Look at the press she got! She brought tears to my eyes! She's never lost, even including last year, so she is overdue for a HOY! Mike Smith said she only hit third gear! Jackson is an a$shole and Asmussen is a cheater! If only they had run once past Labor Day, we wouldn't even be having this discussion! Sherriffs threw his hat in the crowd! Didju see that?! Didju see that -- he is so nice and was having so much fun, I cried! Look at how happy I am, it would be a black eye if we didn't give her HOY!

Brian tell me a dirt horse that won a Breeders Cup race over the last 2 years on the pro - ride surface. The results from last week do not help her case.
If she ran on the dirt and won some grade 1's , you may have a case , but this pro-ride stuff is 2nd tier and no horse should win any awards without running on the dirt and beating quality horses on the dirt - horse racing is dirt not pro-ride

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by brianwspencer

It's curious at best to me why there is so much emotional argument made for Zenyatta.

That's the whole point. Its not just a statistical debate. In the end, it's gonna be a popularity contest (with possible "political" considerations involved, ie who was better for racing). Zenyatta's paddock routine of posing and pawing the ground may even sway voters (thanks Steve Haskin).

Its obvious who racked up the most accomplishments, so why don't people debate who was more popular?

[dellinger63]

Originally Posted by brianwspencer

It's curious at best to me why there is so much emotional argument made for Zenyatta.

Those who believe that Rachel deserves the award based on her achievements on the track have trotted out statistic after statistic, talking only about her performances on the track THIS YEAR.

Jackson is an a$shole and Asmussen is a cheater! !

That closes the case for me. And Brian you of all people know humans vote more on emotion than anything else, it's in our nature.

BC was open to Rachel and Jax/Asm chose not to go because of the poly (still shedding Curlin tears) TOUGH. IMO she missed the final exam by choice and gets a zero. Factor a zero into their beyers and TG's and she loses. Besides by giving Zen HOY it forces Jackson into an emotional state where it would be more likely to return next year to avenge a perceived wrong as opposed to doing it for the fans.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by brianwspencer

It's curious at best to me why there is so much emotional argument made for Zenyatta.

Those who believe that Rachel deserves the award based on her achievements on the track have trotted out statistic after statistic, talking only about her performances on the track THIS YEAR.

Those who believe Zenyatta deserve it make some flimsy case for her winning it based on the actual racing, mentioning Life Is Sweet running behind her a couple times, mentioning the Grade I Breeders' Cup (Turf) Classic, and then move on to things that have nothing to do at all with racetrack accomplishments. Look at how many people were cheering for her at Santa Anita -- you should have heard it! Look at the press she got! She brought tears to my eyes! She's never lost, even including last year, so she is overdue for a HOY! Mike Smith said she only hit third gear! Jackson is an a$shole and Asmussen is a cheater! If only they had run once past Labor Day, we wouldn't even be having this discussion! Sherriffs threw his hat in the crowd! Didju see that?! Didju see that -- he is so nice and was having so much fun, I cried! Look at how happy I am, it would be a black eye if we didn't give her HOY!

[Roc525]

I find it ridiculous that anyone would think that Z's BCC win will do anything to greatly influence those who "have only the mildest of interest in whether horse racing continues to exist". To be fair, I also don't believe any of Rachel's big wins have greatly influenced that group. The great racing memories this filly and mare have provided us with this year will be remembered only by those of us who follow this sport week by week, year by year. The sad truth is, these moments and memories will fade from the minds of those with only a mild interest.

That being said, and as long as this is actually being used as an argument for Z getting HOY, the fact is the same argument can be made concerning Rachel. One could argue that even after Z's big win, Rachel is still the one that has had more of an impact concerning this "hugely important sphere". While most residing in the West will shout "bias!" from the rooftops, one needs only to look at the poll being conducted by the NY Times concerning HOY.

As it stands now, Rachel is in the lead over Zenyatta 69% to 31%. The poll up to this point has accumulated a total of 2,707 votes. Unless each of these votes has been cast by hardcore racing fans or experts, which we all know isn't the case, I think we can agree that Rachel has also greatly influenced even the mildest of players. So let's call it a draw concerning this type of nonsense and just get back to the facts. The one's that all support Rachel for HOY.

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by Roc525

While most residing in the West will shout "bias!" from the rooftops, one needs only to look at the poll being conducted by the NY Times concerning HOY.

As it stands now, Rachel is in the lead over Zenyatta 69% to 31%. The poll up to this point has accumulated a total of 2,707 votes.

Hah! Nice try.

You're telling me I'm supposed to take your statistics at face value when the poll was conducted by the NEW YORK Times!?!

!BIAS!

Let's see what the Pasadena Star has to say about all this.

[Merlinsky]

Seriously? Joe Drape's NY Times Counterpoint about HOY lists her floppy eared love of running as one of two things to think about when considering the big beautiful Zenyatta. I can give several things in Rachel's favor before I get to the 'she's so pretty' argument. Not that it doesn't enrapture me to behold Zenyatta, but c'mon. When is that a qualification for HOY? This is not Westminster Best in Show judging. Who wants it more and struts the best is not what HOY is about.

Originally Posted by brianwspencer

This is begging for a picture of Kanye interrupting Zenyatta.

"Yo, Zenyatta, I'm happy for you and Imma let you finish but Beyonce had one of the best rides by Mike Smith of all time."

Originally Posted by miraja2

The reason is because some people have elevated the Breeders' Cup to an absolutely absurd status. These people seem to believe that the BCC counts for more than the Oaks, Preakness, Haskell, and Woodward put together simply because somebody put the idiotic title "World Championships" after one particular weekend of racing. It is a complete farce.

Ah but it was a farce on polytrack. Surely as compared to other farces in American racing, those on dirt take precedent.

[anamulla]

Let's do some poetry

..God created Dirt
..God Created Grass
..Man created Plastic
..I'm still believe in God..

[Handicappy]

Originally Posted by sammy

Forget the surfaces. This is a no-brainer. R.A. is the better horse and she is H.O.Y. Period.

OH, well thanks for clearing this up!