11/11 ATR: The Great HOTY Debate

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by CSC

I want to re-address this point.

Yes you made a good valid point Phil, however I think it's also worth mentioning these 2 races didn't take a whole lot out of her, this was a reason what many of her backers brought up when they reference she had a long year so it was perfectly alright stopping on Sept 5, if this is the case then what about the other horses that run and prep for the derby and show up in the BC yearly.

So yes you made a good point, but it isn't a valid reason why she didn't run in the BC.

not sure why you cant process this thought so we'll say it for the one millionth time

The VALID reason.. and the reason since about May 7th when Jess Jackson bought her... that she didnt run in the Breeders Cup.. is that her owner said she would not run on artificial surfaces.

Why you cant understand that valid reason is beyond me.. especially since its been in the news for like 6 months now.

It would be one thing if Rachel was pointing to the BC the whole time and skipped a few days before because she didnt want to run against Z.

BUT EVER SINCE SHE WAS BOUGHT BY JJ SHE WAS NOT GOING TO RUN IN THE BREEDERS CUP!

there's your valid reason already! and its perfectly valid! look at how the dirt horses did in the BC!

[Gander]

Originally Posted by Antitrust32

not sure why you cant process this thought so we'll say it for the one millionth time

The VALID reason.. and the reason since about May 7th when Jess Jackson bought her... that she didnt run in the Breeders Cup.. is that her owner said she would not run on artificial surfaces.

Why you cant understand that valid reason is beyond me.. especially since its been in the news for like 6 months now.

It would be one thing if Rachel was pointing to the BC the whole time and skipped a few days before because she didnt want to run against Z.

BUT EVER SINCE SHE WAS BOUGHT BY JJ SHE WAS NOT GOING TO RUN IN THE BREEDERS CUP!

there's your valid reason already! and its perfectly valid! look at how the dirt horses did in the BC!

Thats true, but there are other races after 9/5 not run on poly and more specifically not BC races. There were plenty of spots she could have run in here in NY, yet they decided to retire her. She looked exhausted after her last race and I commend them for calling it quits and giving her a break. But dont use the poly or BC argument as for why she didnt race. I doubt very much we would have seen her in the BC if it was on dirt here at Belmont or at Churchill.

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by Gander

Thats true, but there are other races after 9/5 not run on poly and more specifically not BC races. There were plenty of spots she could have run in here in NY, yet they decided to retire her. She looked exhausted after her last race and I commend them for calling it quits and giving her a break. But dont use the poly or BC argument as for why she didnt race. I doubt very much we would have seen her in the BC if it was on dirt here at Belmont or at Churchill.

I was responding to CSC saying "that wasnt a valid reason for not running in the BC" so yes my post was about the BC.

First off, she's not retired. She will be running in 2010. Big difference! And if she was spent and needed a month or two of eating grass time.. well it takes time to get fit again after that.

I dont blame the connections at all. Her campaign was a tough as anyone's.

[CSC]

Originally Posted by Antitrust32

I was responding to CSC saying "that wasnt a valid reason for not running in the BC" so yes my post was about the BC.

First off, she's not retired. She will be running in 2010. Big difference! And if she was spent and needed a month or two of eating grass time.. well it takes time to get fit again after that.

I dont blame the connections at all. Her campaign was a tough as anyone's.

Gander expressed it well so I didn't bother replying last night.

BUT EVER SINCE SHE WAS BOUGHT BY JJ SHE WAS NOT GOING TO RUN IN THE BREEDERS CUP!

Do you believe if she had lost to Macho Again in the Woodward, JJ would have put her on the shelf for the rest of the year with almost 4 months of racing to go? If you do you give him far more credit than I do. Everyone knows what he said, he said the same thing about Curlin a yr earlier before flip flopping, I don't know why you are so sure to believe him now.

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by CSC

Gander expressed it well so I didn't bother replying last night.



Do you believe if she had lost to Macho Again in the Woodward, JJ would have put her on the shelf for the rest of the year with almost 4 months of racing to go? If you do you give him far more credit than I do. Everyone knows what he said, he said the same thing about Curlin a yr earlier before flip flopping, I don't know why you are so sure to believe him now.

I think he realized he made a mistake by going against his gut feeling with Curlin.. and would make sure he didnt do the same thing with Rachel.

The horse ran so hard for 9 months this year.. she deserved a rest.

If he somehow retires her while she is healthy and she doesnt run next year I may change my opinion.

[Gate Dancer]

I think the thing that offends me most about the Zenyatta Classic is that so many people seem to fall into the "this was the best Classic field ever" camp. Zenyatta is a tremendous filly but to think she faced the toughest and deepest Classic field ever is a leap of epic proportions............here's a few names from truly CLASSIC fields:

1984---Wild Again, Gate Dancer, Slew O'Gold, Desert Wine, Precisionist
1985---Proud Truth, Gate Dancer, Turkoman, Chiefs Crown
1987---Ferdinand, Alysheba, Cryptoclearance, Gulch, Afleet
1988---Alysheba, Seeking The Gold, Forty Niner, Cryptoclearance, Personal Flag
1989---Sunday Silence, Easy Goer, Cryptoclearance, Blushing John
1991---Black Tie Affair, Twilight Agenda, Unbridled, Strike The Gold, Marquetry
1998---Awesome Again, Silver Charm, Swain, Victory Gallop, Skip Away, Touch Gold

This is not even getting to the fields in the 2000's when Tiznow went back-to-back.

There is no doubt that Zenyatta ran a terrific race and it will always be a "Classic" but let's keep things in perspective.

[rpncaine]

If in fact the synthetic's are going to be around for a while (and I hope not to long) and as the Steve's have said it is a distinct third surface, then why don't the powers that be use this year as start up a "Synthetic HOY" category? Dirt HOY, Turf HOY, Synthetic HOY. Wouldn't this be the perfect time to do that?

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by rpncaine

If in fact the synthetic's are going to be around for a while (and I hope not to long) and as the Steve's have said it is a distinct third surface, then why don't the powers that be use this year as start up a "Synthetic HOY" category? Dirt HOY, Turf HOY, Synthetic HOY. Wouldn't this be the perfect time to do that?

Seems like an intelligent place to go.. I would guess that would be admitting that rubber is a third surface or "unconventional turf" That would mitigate the results of former "unconventional dirt or unconventional turf champions" G-d forbid the industry admit they made a mistake