11/11 ATR: The Great HOTY Debate

[hockey2315]

Originally Posted by letswastemoney

Before you say this years BC Field would drown the horses RA beat

Horses like Gio Ponti and Twice Over and Rip Van Winkle might very well finish up the track on a dirt course for all you or anyone knows, especially Gio Ponti since there has to be a reason why Gio has been kept on grass when dirt racing is more widely available here in the States.

Would you take Macho Again or Gio Ponti in a fairly run dirt race at 10 furlongs? I would take the proven dirt horse.

What's your point?

Last I checked Zenyatta's race wasn't on dirt, so not sure how that's relevant at all.

[letswastemoney]

Originally Posted by hockey2315

What's your point?

Last I checked Zenyatta's race wasn't on dirt, so not sure how that's relevant at all.

I just think the fact that Zenyatta won the Classic and therefore "beat better horses" than RA is a weak argument to make because they are difficult to compare to the horses RA defeated.

You might as well consider Gio Ponti for horse of the year if you are going to consider Zenyatta. Synthetics are a separate surface and if we are to treat synthetics in this regard, then you should give consideration to turf horses for HOY as well.

[10 pnt move up]

Originally Posted by letswastemoney

Before you say this years BC Field would drown the horses RA beat

Horses like Gio Ponti and Twice Over and Rip Van Winkle might very well finish up the track on a dirt course for all you or anyone knows, especially Gio Ponti since there has to be a reason why Gio has been kept on grass when dirt racing is more widely available here in the States.

Would you take Macho Again or Gio Ponti in a fairly run dirt race at 10 furlongs? I would take the proven dirt horse.

This might be the worst statement I have seen and defies all rational handicapping.

Everyone says that Pro Ride is very friendly to turf horses, in fact Gio Ponti ran well on this very surface.

So if the ability on the turf, grade 1 ability does transfer to pro ride, then we saw two or three legit grade 1 winning talent run their race in the Classic yet they got drown.

How you can talk about what they would have done on dirt when they ran their race on pro ride is beyond me.

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up

"where it was" - Yea when the races are run at Santa Anita they should not count, kinda like when the crew for Mineshaft decided he was just to cool to run at Santa Anita, racing at the place is not worth the trip for you eastern guys, and heck that was on dirt even!!

"who it came against" - cut it any way you want, that was a better field than RA ran againt all year. Her best field was probably the Woodward, and this field drown that one. I guess her race on an off track, not fast dirt mind you but an off track in NJ is a close second.

Also when separating two records for Horse of the Year it should factor in the impact a horse had on a sport, and I think in 20 years unless RA wins the Classic, America's defining race for quality, next year that they will still be talking about Zenyatta and not RA. This takes nothing away from her but fillies winning or competing in triple crown races, well seems to the rage the last few years.

The triple crown races outweigh the Breeders Cup as far as people who watch it. I read the TV ratings were low again for the BC.

Tons more people watched the Preakness I would guess.

[slotdirt]

Originally Posted by Antitrust32

The triple crown races outweigh the Breeders Cup as far as people who watch it. I read the TV ratings were low again for the BC.

Tons more people watched the Preakness I would guess.

7.9/.9 for the Preakness versus the Breeders Cup Classic. That is, if I understand my Nielsen ratings correctly. It's not even close - a TON more people watch the Triple Crown than do the Breeders Cup, particularly when there is a compelling story involved.

[Travis Stone]

Originally Posted by Antitrust32

The triple crown races outweigh the Breeders Cup as far as people who watch it. I read the TV ratings were low again for the BC.

Tons more people watched the Preakness I would guess.

Racing on TV starts/stops with the Derby, carries into the Preakness is society likes the winner and will only watch the Belmont if it's a big story (Triple Crown etc.)

The Breeders' Cup is a really tough sell on TV because it lasts all day and there is 30 minutes between races. People who are in the game complain about the angles used and stuff when in reality they should realize those who are fringe fans are more apt to watch/enjoy if they can see some fun angles versus the boring pan shot.

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by Travis Stone

Racing on TV starts/stops with the Derby, carries into the Preakness is society likes the winner and will only watch the Belmont if it's a big story (Triple Crown etc.)

The Breeders' Cup is a really tough sell on TV because it lasts all day and there is 30 minutes between races. People who are in the game complain about the angles used and stuff when in reality they should realize those who are fringe fans are more apt to watch/enjoy if they can see some fun angles versus the boring pan shot.

Travis if Rachel would have raced against Zenyatta the ratings for that time slot would have been wonderful.

[Travis Stone]

Originally Posted by freddymo

Travis if Rachel would have raced against Zenyatta the ratings for that time slot would have been wonderful.

Probably, but I'm speaking in non-headliner years which this was w/out that match-up.

[Revidere]

Originally Posted by Travis Stone

Racing on TV starts/stops with the Derby, carries into the Preakness is society likes the winner and will only watch the Belmont if it's a big story (Triple Crown etc.)

The Breeders' Cup is a really tough sell on TV because it lasts all day and there is 30 minutes between races. People who are in the game complain about the angles used and stuff when in reality they should realize those who are fringe fans are more apt to watch/enjoy if they can see some fun angles versus the boring pan shot.

Or enjoy a really good race call!!!