Who Is Horse Of The Year?

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by CSC

It doesn't absolve why RA didn't run after Sept 5, why do so many of her backers choose to ignore this?

she ran 8 very hard races all year and the trainer even said she was spent after the Woodward and needed a break. Why do you choose to ignore that?

How many times has SB ran this year?

How about Zenyatta?

You will find 8 is a pretty solid number of races and also the year starts on Jan 1st, not on Sept 5th.

[parsixfarms]

Here's Ghostzapper's 4-race Horse of the Year campaign in 2004, which started in July:


Breeders' Cup Classic Powered by Dodge (gr. I, 1 1/4 miles in 1:59.02, NTR, equal top weight, by 3, defeating Roses in May, Pleasantly Perfect, Perfect Drift, Azeri, Personal Rush, Birdstone, Dynever, Fantasticat, Funny Cide, Bowman's Band, Newfoundland, Freefourinternet).

Woodward S (gr. I, 1 1/8 miles, defeating Saint Liam, Bowman's Band, Seek Gold, Newfoundland, Midway Road, Presidentialaffair).

Tom Fool H (gr. II, 7 furlongs, top-weighted, by 41/4, defeating Aggadan, Unforgettable Max, Lion Tamer).

Philip H. Iselin Breeders' Cup H (gr. III, 1 1/8 miles, top-weighted, by 103/4, defeating Presidentialaffair, Zoffinger, Private Lap).


In 2004, Saint Liam was not an "established" horse, and the fields for the Tom Fool and Iselin were really weak. Considering the fact that she's a female, is Zenyatta's campaign substantively less?

I just don't get this notion that Zenyatta was somehow "obliged" to ship East. When Personal Ensign raced in 1988 (in races like the Molly Pitcher against modest fields), I don't recall anyone suggesting that she needed to ship to California to validate her campaign. (And, yes, they had planes back then also.)

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by parsixfarms

Here's Ghostzapper's 4-race Horse of the Year campaign in 2004, which started in July:


Breeders' Cup Classic Powered by Dodge (gr. I, 1 1/4 miles in 1:59.02, NTR, equal top weight, by 3, defeating Roses in May, Pleasantly Perfect, Perfect Drift, Azeri, Personal Rush, Birdstone, Dynever, Fantasticat, Funny Cide, Bowman's Band, Newfoundland, Freefourinternet).

Woodward S (gr. I, 1 1/8 miles, defeating Saint Liam, Bowman's Band, Seek Gold, Newfoundland, Midway Road, Presidentialaffair).

Tom Fool H (gr. II, 7 furlongs, top-weighted, by 41/4, defeating Aggadan, Unforgettable Max, Lion Tamer).

Philip H. Iselin Breeders' Cup H (gr. III, 1 1/8 miles, top-weighted, by 103/4, defeating Presidentialaffair, Zoffinger, Private Lap).


In 2004, Saint Liam was not an "established" horse, and the fields for the Tom Fool and Iselin were really weak. Considering the fact that she's a female, is Zenyatta's campaign substantively less?

I just don't get this notion that Zenyatta was somehow "obliged" to ship East. When Personal Ensign raced in 1988 (in races like the Molly Pitcher against modest fields), I don't recall anyone suggesting that she needed to ship to California to validate her campaign. (And, yes, they had planes back then also.)

I dont understand how bringing up GZ campaign helps Zenyatta??

Rachels whole year was so much better than Z. Z's one race was great. Z should for sure be the "Breeders Cup HOY" and Rachel should for sure be "actual HOY"

[randallscott35]

Originally Posted by parsixfarms

Here's Ghostzapper's 4-race Horse of the Year campaign in 2004, which started in July:


Breeders' Cup Classic Powered by Dodge (gr. I, 1 1/4 miles in 1:59.02, NTR, equal top weight, by 3, defeating Roses in May, Pleasantly Perfect, Perfect Drift, Azeri, Personal Rush, Birdstone, Dynever, Fantasticat, Funny Cide, Bowman's Band, Newfoundland, Freefourinternet).

Woodward S (gr. I, 1 1/8 miles, defeating Saint Liam, Bowman's Band, Seek Gold, Newfoundland, Midway Road, Presidentialaffair).

Tom Fool H (gr. II, 7 furlongs, top-weighted, by 41/4, defeating Aggadan, Unforgettable Max, Lion Tamer).

Philip H. Iselin Breeders' Cup H (gr. III, 1 1/8 miles, top-weighted, by 103/4, defeating Presidentialaffair, Zoffinger, Private Lap).


In 2004, Saint Liam was not an "established" horse, and the fields for the Tom Fool and Iselin were really weak. Considering the fact that she's a female, is Zenyatta's campaign substantively less?

I just don't get this notion that Zenyatta was somehow "obliged" to ship East. When Personal Ensign raced in 1988 (in races like the Molly Pitcher against modest fields), I don't recall anyone suggesting that she needed to ship to California to validate her campaign. (And, yes, they had planes back then also.)

She's not obliged to ship East at all. Look at their campaigns...forget the this one dodged this or that. Look at the races themselves. One substantial race for Zen doesn't do enough to overtake Rachel.

[randallscott35]

Another thing I've seen is people want to make this a Biggie vs Tupac thing. It's not east vs. west here people. I could care less how jacked the grandstand was on Saturday. That's wonderful, they don't give the WS to the Yankees every year because they have the most fans. On the field is where it matters.

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by randallscott35

Another thing I've seen is people want to make this a Biggie vs Tupac thing. It's not east vs. west here people. I could care less how jacked the grandstand was on Saturday. That's wonderful, they don't give the WS to the Yankees every year because they have the most fans. On the field is where it matters.

(except I hate the Yankees)

[ateamstupid]

Originally Posted by randallscott35

Another thing I've seen is people want to make this a Biggie vs Tupac thing. It's not east vs. west here people. I could care less how jacked the grandstand was on Saturday. That's wonderful, they don't give the WS to the Yankees every year because they have the most fans. On the field is where it matters.

Especially since the crowd at Saratoga was as loud as I've heard it when Rachel won the Woodward.

[slotdirt]

I legitimately can't believe that there are 53 human beings who regularly visit derbytrail.com who think Zenyatta is more deserving of horse of the year honors than Rachel Alexandra.

[Sightseek]

Originally Posted by slotdirt

I legitimately can't believe that there are 53 human beings who regularly visit derbytrail.com who think Zenyatta is more deserving of horse of the year honors than Rachel Alexandra.

I legitimately can't believe you would be shocked by any opinion expressed on derbytrail.com.

[randallscott35]

Originally Posted by slotdirt

I legitimately can't believe that there are 53 human beings who regularly visit derbytrail.com who think Zenyatta is more deserving of horse of the year honors than Rachel Alexandra.

It would be a travesty, yes a travesty, if Rachel didn't get it.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by randallscott35

It would be a travesty, yes a travesty, if Rachel didn't get it.

a travesty, a sham, a mockery....it's a traveshamockery!

[DaTruth]

Originally Posted by randallscott35

Another thing I've seen is people want to make this a Biggie vs Tupac thing. It's not east vs. west here people. I could care less how jacked the grandstand was on Saturday. That's wonderful, they don't give the WS to the Yankees every year because they have the most fans. On the field is where it matters.

I consider RA a Midwest/Southern horse as much as an East Coast horse.

[Sightseek]

Originally Posted by randallscott35

She's not obliged to ship East at all. Look at their campaigns...forget the this one dodged this or that. Look at the races themselves. One substantial race for Zen doesn't do enough to overtake Rachel.

Exactly and this is why I posted each horse's races on the other thread. I really hope that anyone who does have a vote takes the time to review and digest each and every race and fully appreciates each horse before casting their vote.

[kgar311]

Originally Posted by parsixfarms

Here's Ghostzapper's 4-race Horse of the Year campaign in 2004, which started in July:


Breeders' Cup Classic Powered by Dodge (gr. I, 1 1/4 miles in 1:59.02, NTR, equal top weight, by 3, defeating Roses in May, Pleasantly Perfect, Perfect Drift, Azeri, Personal Rush, Birdstone, Dynever, Fantasticat, Funny Cide, Bowman's Band, Newfoundland, Freefourinternet).

Woodward S (gr. I, 1 1/8 miles, defeating Saint Liam, Bowman's Band, Seek Gold, Newfoundland, Midway Road, Presidentialaffair).

Tom Fool H (gr. II, 7 furlongs, top-weighted, by 41/4, defeating Aggadan, Unforgettable Max, Lion Tamer).

Philip H. Iselin Breeders' Cup H (gr. III, 1 1/8 miles, top-weighted, by 103/4, defeating Presidentialaffair, Zoffinger, Private Lap).


In 2004, Saint Liam was not an "established" horse, and the fields for the Tom Fool and Iselin were really weak. Considering the fact that she's a female, is Zenyatta's campaign substantively less?

I just don't get this notion that Zenyatta was somehow "obliged" to ship East. When Personal Ensign raced in 1988 (in races like the Molly Pitcher against modest fields), I don't recall anyone suggesting that she needed to ship to California to validate her campaign. (And, yes, they had planes back then also.)

So what other 8-8 horse that raced outside of the box all year long in ultra impressive fashion did Ghostzapper have to go up against on the west coast to solidify his claim as horse HOY?

[slotdirt]

I don't see how Ghostzapper is an apt comparison to either of these. Who else was really worthy of the award in 2004 given how brilliant those four races were? Funny Cide? Roses in May?

[philcski]

Originally Posted by kgar311

So what other 8-8 horse that raced outside of the box all year long in ultra impressive fashion did Ghostzapper have to go up against on the west coast to solidify his claim as horse HOY?

Smarty Jones

Originally Posted by Sightseek

6 or 7 countries?

Kentucky, California, New York, Chicago, Miami, Ireland, and London.

Weren't you paying attention?

[Antitrust32]

It would be interesting to get Phils, or Scotts opinion on this since he saw Rachel live in the Preakness and Zenyatta in the BC.. Scott was there for woodward, and BC..

What do you two think?

[philcski]

Originally Posted by Antitrust32

It would be interesting to get Phils, or Scotts opinion on this since he saw Rachel live in the Preakness and Zenyatta in the BC.. Scott was there for woodward, and BC..

What do you two think?

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[dellinger63]

Originally Posted by philcski

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would you be upset about co-HOY of the year? By the way that was some great steak we had!!!! and Scott seemed OK w/HOY. You guys are great and this was the year of the females no doubt about it. Give them both HOY and make everyone happy!!

[mclem0822]

As wonderful as Zenyatta's performance was in the Classic, and it was an epic thing of beauty, HOY should still go to Rachel Alexandra. The overall body of work by RA is just simply better. The number of different tracks she won one, along with the higher number of times she defeated males give her an advantage in my opinion. I'm not trying to take anything away from what Zenyatta accomplished, she's had a wonderful year with a storybook ending. I just believe Rachel Alexandra's year was better, and worthy of HOY.