Who Is Horse Of The Year?

[Travis Stone]

Originally Posted by CSC

Funny how anyone who doesn't agree with the notion that RA is the definitive HOY is termed a 'hater'. I don't see this sort of defensive mechanism from the Zenyatta backers. What does this speak of some of her fanbase?

Even more odd, what does it say about those of us who appreciate both?

I wish the Eclipse vote was tomorrow.

[randallscott35]

How does thinking Rachel was obviously horse of the year mean you don't appreciate both? Of course I appreciate a horse like Zenyatta. I love her....but the question is not who has the biggest cheering section, its who was Horse of the Year. And that is clearly Rachel for 2009.

[Travis Stone]

Ultimately, I think it's a question of whether or not you want to call it Horse of the Year, or Horse of the Race. Horse of the Year is Rachel Alexandra, for she did amazing things throughout the year. Horse of the Race is Zenyatta, because she won the big race of the season.

I think the kicker is that Eclipse Awards go well beyond 'What have you done for me lately?' People are also forgetting the impact Rachel Alexandra had when she did her thing and how she was a hot topic on Twitter, ESPN and on the front pages of newspapers.

Also, testing an older filly/mare against males is not as bold and exciting as testing a 3-year-old filly against older males. That's insane... we'll probably never see that again.

Season ending honors are about results and the big picture. I give Zenyatta double bonus points for winning the BC Classic, but Rachel won the Preakness, Haskell and Woodward. She traveled, she tried and she conquered. The race is a photo finish but Rachel's nose is down first... Zenyatta closed hard, but needed one more jump to get there.

Yeah, if there ever was a year for co-Horse of the Years, this is it. But by doing so you do recognize a horse for having never left her comfort zone. Kind of risky, but forgettable. You also recognize a horse for skipping the championships, kind of lame, but understandable.

Interestingly, how big does the scratch at Churchill seem now. If Zenyatta had won on Derby weekend, what does that do to this debate? Interesting stuff to consider.

[CSC]

Originally Posted by Travis Stone

Even more odd, what does it say about those of us who appreciate both?

I wish the Eclipse vote was tomorrow.

Originally Posted by NTamm1215

You have to admit, you openly questioned whether she was better than Summer Bird even after she destroyed him in the Haskell. You've constantly nit-picked her campaign and went so far as to say her resume should be downgraded a tad because she didn't run in the Derby for her prior connections.

It's one thing to think she's the definitive pick for HOTY, it's another to think Zenyatta is, but both of their accomplishments speak for themselves. I think it's a little too convenient for you, or anyone else who engages in it, to question why Rachel ran in the Preakness rather than Belmont and the Woodward rather than Travers but just assume that Zenyatta gets a pass on the joke of a schedule she had because she won the Classic.

NT

I've always maintained what RA had accomplished up until Sept 5 was HOY worthy, my beef if you can call it a beef is I only wish she had raced the entire year where most horses are primed for a championship run, or more precisely in the JCGC or the BC. Up until that point she was the deserved choice for HOY barring a performance that could supercede her resume later in the yr. This is the chance her connections took when you call it a year with almost 4 months left on the racing calendar, well to be more accurate 3 months and 3 weeks, I don't see the hate in this thinking, I saw that performance from Zenyatta last Saturday and she would be my vote not only because I believe she would have beaten RA(yeah I know we will never know, but she didn't run for whatever reasons you want to believe) in the Classic had she run but the way in which she won the race, which was very decisive.

[Travis Stone]

Originally Posted by CSC

I've always maintained what RA had accomplished up until Sept 5 was HOY worthy, my beef if you can call it a beef is I only wish she had raced the entire year where most horses are primed for a championship run, or more precisely in the JCGC or the BC. Up until that point she was the deserved choice for HOY barring a performance that would supercede later in the yr. This is the chance her connections took when you call it a year with almost 4 months left on the racing calendar, well to be more accurate 3 months and 3 weeks, I don't see the hate in this thinking, I saw that performance from Zenyatta and she would be my vote not only because I believe she would have beaten RA in the Classic had she run but the way in which she won the race, which was decisive.

Rachel started in January, Zenyatta started in... you can't hold it against Rachel.

Also, assuming who would beat who is weak when you're talking about recognizing results. It's not the "Horse of the Year If X Would Have Happened."

[CSC]

Originally Posted by Travis Stone

Rachel started in January, Zenyatta started in... you can't hold it against Rachel.

Also, assuming who would beat who is weak when you're talking about recognizing results. It's not the "Horse of the Year If X Would Have Happened."

Sept 5 to Nov 6 would have given her ample time to get ready, she is 1 for 1 on poly may I remind everyone, yes I know JJ's feelings on synth but you play with the hand that all the other owners were dealt also, you don't see this crap from Summer Bird's connections for instance and you see the yr he has had, many still think he should be racing in Japan in Dec? Why is RA that fragile they couldn't fit one more race in, nevertheless I would have been satisfied if she ran one more time after the Woodward and that was the JCGC, but for whatever the reasons one want's to believe, she was protected the rest of the year.

[NTamm1215]

Originally Posted by CSC

Sept 5 to Nov 6 would have given her ample time to get ready, she is 1 for 1 on poly may I remind everyone, yes I know JJ's feelings on synth but you play with the hand that all the other owners were dealt also, you don't see this crap from Summer Bird's connections for instance and you see the yr he has had, many still think he should be racing in Japan in Dec? Why is RA that fragile they couldn't fit one more race in, nevertheless I would have been satisfied if she ran one more time after the Woodward and that was the JCGC, but for whatever the reasons one want's to believe, she was protected the rest of the year.

Have you applied the same scrutiny to Zenyatta's schedule?

NT

[CSC]

Originally Posted by NTamm1215

Have you applied the same scrutiny to Zenyatta's schedule?

NT

It doesn't absolve why RA didn't run after Sept 5, why do so many of her backers choose to ignore this?

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by CSC

It doesn't absolve why RA didn't run after Sept 5, why do so many of her backers choose to ignore this?

she ran 8 very hard races all year and the trainer even said she was spent after the Woodward and needed a break. Why do you choose to ignore that?

How many times has SB ran this year?

How about Zenyatta?

You will find 8 is a pretty solid number of races and also the year starts on Jan 1st, not on Sept 5th.

[Sightseek]

Originally Posted by CSC

It doesn't absolve why RA didn't run after Sept 5, why do so many of her backers choose to ignore this?

So had she raced once in the months of May, June, August, October and November that would make her more eligible in your mind?

[NTamm1215]

Originally Posted by CSC

It doesn't absolve why RA didn't run after Sept 5, why do so many of her backers choose to ignore this?

WHO CARES?

That would be an issue if she didn't run but once or twice all season. She danced many of the major dances and they happened to be dances that female horses seldom, if ever, and in one case, never had done victoriously. That is a campaign of epic proportions.

Does this really boil down to Rachel potentially having been in the JCGC setting the same ridiculously slow pace that Tizway and QR did over a quagmire of a track and beating up on your boy Summer Bird again? If so then you're grasping at straws as to why she's not the HOY.

This has nothing to do with Zenyatta needing to ship east as some have alluded to here. It has to do with what races she ran in when in her cozy home state. By the time Zenyatta ran in the Clement Hirsch Rachel had already done memorable things. At that point her connections needed to try the Pacific Classic or a similar race against males.

NT

[goodcopy]

Zennatta Step up and race against the best in the world!
She beat grd.1 or grp.1 horses from 6 or 7 country's!
She's undeafeated and 14 for 14!
Rachel had the chance to run against the boy's in the derby and chose the Oaks,She didn't run in the travers and no matter the surfase she chose not to run at the Breeders cup!

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Originally Posted by CSC

It doesn't absolve why RA didn't run after Sept 5, why do so many of her backers choose to ignore this?

They don't like SoCal and/or Synthetic. Just vote, and forget this effort. One horse is drawing away (with gusto) in one of the 2 biggest purse races in the world. She showed up on the biggest stage, and romped. Simply fkn romped, and still what do you hear? "She didn't do enough." Neither did anything wrong, but R.A. didn't even run in the biggest race for 3 year olds this year( K Derby.) She's a 3 year old. If you want to match up with Zenyata, then you should at least have won the biggest race for a 3 year old, or won this race that Zenyata showed up for. Zenyata won the biggest race she could of been in this year. She's the only filly or mare to win this race. Hasn't ever been done (in the 25 year history.) Winning Colors won the Derby. R.A. didn't even run in it. She won a Triple Crown race. Then, she ducked both the Belmont and BC Classic. Hey, if you want to ignore the mare that accomplished the biggest feat (for her sex) in 25 years of horseracing, then you go right ahead. Surely, R.A. winning those other races was more important to ya. At some point, doing something your sex hasn't come close to doing in 25 years should get a little respect.

[slotdirt]

Originally Posted by CSC

Sept 5 to Nov 6 would have given her ample time to get ready, she is 1 for 1 on poly may I remind everyone, yes I know JJ's feelings on synth but you play with the hand that all the other owners were dealt also, you don't see this crap from Summer Bird's connections for instance and you see the yr he has had, many still think he should be racing in Japan in Dec? Why is RA that fragile they couldn't fit one more race in, nevertheless I would have been satisfied if she ran the just one more race after the Woodward and that was the JCGC, but for whatever the reasons one want's to believe, she was protected the rest of the year.

You are basically asking for the impossible from one horse, but giving the other a complete pass at anything resembling a legitimate race schedule. You must have been a big fan of Southern Image and Kip Deville.

[brianwspencer]

Originally Posted by CSC

I would have been satisfied if she ran one more time

Color me just a little shy of being able to believe that. If the campaign she had didn't impress you, and has left with you with so many uncountable knocks on her, nothing she could have done would have impressed you.

[CSC]

Originally Posted by brianwspencer

Color me just a little shy of being able to believe that. If the campaign she had didn't impress you, and has left with you with so many uncountable knocks on her, nothing she could have done would have impressed you.

I mentioned more than once here she deserved HOY before Saturday, and it was only after Z's performance in the Classic that my mind changed.

[kgar311]

If Zenyatta had run and won in the Pacific Classic instead of ducking that race I think the HOY voting would be alot closer. But she was ducking the males all year. RA ducked no one and took on all challenges HOY

[Travis Stone]

Originally Posted by kgar311

If Zenyatta had run and won in the Pacific Classic instead of ducking that race I think the HOY voting would be alot closer.

I actually think the scales tip at that point towards Zenyatta. All she needed to do in hindsight was one more 'outside the box' thing.

[slotdirt]

Originally Posted by Travis Stone

I actually think the scales tip at that point towards Zenyatta. All she needed to do in hindsight was one more 'outside the box' thing.

What's odd for me is that her connections have been so set on this horse of the year talk since last year's Breeder's Cup, you'd think they would have considered actually doing something with the horse to prove them right. Beating Lethal Heat four times just doesn't cut it. I'm sorry.

[DaTruth]

Since the Jockey Club Gold Cup was supposed to be the proving ground, why didn't Z show up there? I know that would mean actually leaving socal, but we do have these jet plane things.