BC can't answer handle figs honestly: "It's the field size, stupid"

[philcski]

Originally Posted by Kasept

2009 Cup attendance up at SA (thanks to smarter ticket pricing policy).. Handle was off a small amount, but BC can't be honest about it... "It's the economy" they said. No. It's not... It's the watering down of the event with superfluous races like the Marathon and Dirt Mile; the embarrassing field size of 8-9 in sacrosanct original Cup races the Distaff, Sprint, and Turf; and the lack commitment/interest from horseplayers that are put off by the synthetic surface.

http://www.drf.com/news/article/108818.html

Ontrack handle showed gains both days despite one fewer race carded per day compared to 2008. Saturday's ontrack handle reached $12,177,982, a gain of 3 percent.

The common-pool handle on Saturday reached $96,159,747, a loss of 6 percent from last year's corresponding day. Friday's common-pool handle of $48,439,458 was a decrease of 1 percent.

Officials blamed a slow economy for the drop in common-pool betting.

This #1
The commitment to large wagers just isn't there on the synthetics for 90% of players.

Would like to see handle per race to see how correlated field size was. The Turf probably had the weakest year over year handle, but I wouldn't necessarily blame the small field on it but rather the fact that it just wasn't a compelling betting race. A heavy favorite and 4 no-chancers, but quite honestly that's not surprising given the shape of the American turf division this year.

Also need to factor in probably $1,000,000 in wagers were refunded when Quality Road scratched at the gate.

[10 pnt move up]

1. The people that run racing are for the most part....not very smart.

2. The people that run the Breeders Cup make the people in #1 look like brain surgeons in comparison.

The BC used to be 7 races for a lot of money, it was special to win one of these races, there are 14 now. Seriously, to me its the original 7, maye the FM Turf as well, but the rest dont carry BC weight with me, they are the under card races.

The FM Sprint for example, all it has done is watered down the sprint, the two or three best fillies would compete with the Sprint...and they won!

The Dirt Mile has taken away horses from the classic (this year maybe the exception).

The Turf juveniles, all it did was water down the regular juvenile races.

Just moronic decisions, and that has nothing to do with location. I am sure when its 40 degrees and raining next year your going to hear the same stuff. And heaven forbid if anyone gets hurt (the past 2 years no one has).

[Danzig]

i thought that perhaps a two day even would work-but with the time of year the event is held, sat/sunday is impossible. fri/sat is watering it down, especially with moving the distaff to friday.
go back to one day. quit trying to please everyone with so many different races. they should have:

the 2 juvie races.
sprint
f+ m sprint
turf mile
turf classic
classic
distaff

pump up the classic and distaff purses, cut the juvie purses to 500k. the distaff generally is one of the smaller fields, increasing that purse would draw more horses from overseas.

[Buckpasser]

Nonsense, the BC was way watered down with some really dumb races. Also if your budget is "x" and you have been betting on one day in the past at BC, how can you sustain two days! Answer: "Less betting"

[NTamm1215]

The Marathon should be toast in my opinion. Especially considering there will be little to no involvement from the Euros next year when it's run on dirt.

As far as the Juvenile Turf races, I'm inclined to give them a chance next year because dirt horses will run in dirt races and turf horses will run in turf races.

The changes that were made two years ago and last year were ill-timed. The dirt mile doesn't really work unless you're running at a track that has a one-turn mile. Should it get a chance next year? I'd say yes, but I say that remembering the whole time that it is going to cannibalize the Classic in some way.

The Filly and Mare Sprint is probably here to stay considering it's now a Grade I, it has drawn pretty solid fields in three runnings and next year it's being run at an eastern venue.

I get the feeling that you have to give some of the new races one go at CD to see about future proclamations. If I had to vote right now I'd pitch the Marathon and JF Turf if you need $1.5 mil to save. However, I think getting the BC off of the two-day format is a near impossibility.

NT

[Kasept]

Originally Posted by NTamm1215

I get the feeling that you have to give some of the new races one go at CD to see about future proclamations. If I had to vote right now I'd pitch the Marathon and JF Turf if you need $1.5 mil to save. However, I think getting the BC off of the two-day format is a near impossibility.

NT

Merge the Juvenile Turf races into one unisex edition. This race has created some real interest and development of a series of stakes around the venues. It's a good target and helps promote domestic 'turfy' stallions. It's a plus for the Euros too, and we've shown our 2yo turf runners can compete with theirs...

Obviously the Marathon is meaningless, and to me, the F&M Sprint is ridiculous. Many of the best Sprints came with fillies and mares. The Turf Sprint should be thought through. The Dirt Mile will finally get on dirt and run at a mile, so I guess it should be given a test... But, I'd run this 10 race Breeders' Cup card. 5 on the main and 5 on the lawn:

1. Turf Sprint (P4)
2. Juvenile Fillies
3. Juvenile Turf
4. Juvenile (P4)
5. F&M Turf (P6)
6. Sprint (P5)
7. Mile (P4)
8. Distaff
9. Turf
10. Classic

[philcski]

Originally Posted by Kasept

Merge the Juvenile Turf races into one unisex edition. This race has created some real interest and development of a series of stakes around the venues. It's a good target and helps promote domestic 'turfy' stallions. It's a plus for the Euros too, and we've shown our 2yo turf runners can compete with theirs...

Obviously the Marathon is meaningless, and to me, the F&M Sprint is ridiculous. Many of the best Sprints came with fillies and mares. The Turf Sprint should be thought through. The Dirt Mile will finally get on dirt and run at a mile, so I guess it should be given a test... But, I'd run this 10 race Breeders' Cup card. 5 on the main and 5 on the lawn:

1. Turf Sprint (P4)
2. Juvenile Fillies
3. Juvenile Turf
4. Juvenile (P4)
5. F&M Turf (P6)
6. Sprint (P5)
7. Mile (P4)
8. Distaff
9. Turf
10. Classic

The F&M Sprint and Dirt Mile getting G1's means it'll be tough to pitch them IMO.

Merge the two Juvy Turf races as you suggested, dump the Marathon. I hate turf sprints but there's so many of them now it really is a 'circuit' so keep that. Leaves 12 races, 4 Friday and 8 Saturday.

Friday (hell, run it under the lights at CD):
Juvenile Turf
Turf Sprint
F&M Sprint
Dirt Mile

Saturday:
Juvenile Fillies
F&M Turf
Juvenile
Mile
Sprint
Distaff
Turf
Classic

[jms62]

Originally Posted by Kasept

Merge the Juvenile Turf races into one unisex edition. This race has created some real interest and development of a series of stakes around the venues. It's a good target and helps promote domestic 'turfy' stallions. It's a plus for the Euros too, and we've shown our 2yo turf runners can compete with theirs...

Obviously the Marathon is meaningless, and to me, the F&M Sprint is ridiculous. Many of the best Sprints came with fillies and mares. The Turf Sprint should be thought through. The Dirt Mile will finally get on dirt and run at a mile, so I guess it should be given a test... But, I'd run this 10 race Breeders' Cup card. 5 on the main and 5 on the lawn:

1. Turf Sprint (P4)
2. Juvenile Fillies
3. Juvenile Turf
4. Juvenile (P4)
5. F&M Turf (P6)
6. Sprint (P5)
7. Mile (P4)
8. Distaff
9. Turf
10. Classic

I don't like having a P4 start and end in the same race. If your opinion is wrong you get crushed

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by Kasept

Merge the Juvenile Turf races into one unisex edition. This race has created some real interest and development of a series of stakes around the venues. It's a good target and helps promote domestic 'turfy' stallions. It's a plus for the Euros too, and we've shown our 2yo turf runners can compete with theirs...

Obviously the Marathon is meaningless, and to me, the F&M Sprint is ridiculous. Many of the best Sprints came with fillies and mares. The Turf Sprint should be thought through. The Dirt Mile will finally get on dirt and run at a mile, so I guess it should be given a test... But, I'd run this 10 race Breeders' Cup card. 5 on the main and 5 on the lawn:

1. Turf Sprint (P4)
2. Juvenile Fillies
3. Juvenile Turf
4. Juvenile (P4)
5. F&M Turf (P6)
6. Sprint (P5)
7. Mile (P4)
8. Distaff
9. Turf
10. Classic

Turfy Stallions...Did Ramsey buy one of these? Turfy stallions are excellent for foal share programs not making money... Steve Turfy stallions? WTF if El Prado didnt toss MDoro id would be 20k book opend and willing

[johnny pinwheel]

Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up

1. The people that run racing are for the most part....not very smart.

2. The people that run the Breeders Cup make the people in #1 look like brain surgeons in comparison.

The BC used to be 7 races for a lot of money, it was special to win one of these races, there are 14 now. Seriously, to me its the original 7, maye the FM Turf as well, but the rest dont carry BC weight with me, they are the under card races.

The FM Sprint for example, all it has done is watered down the sprint, the two or three best fillies would compete with the Sprint...and they won!

The Dirt Mile has taken away horses from the classic (this year maybe the exception).

The Turf juveniles, all it did was water down the regular juvenile races.

Just moronic decisions, and that has nothing to do with location. I am sure when its 40 degrees and raining next year your going to hear the same stuff. And heaven forbid if anyone gets hurt (the past 2 years no one has).

good ideas, i agree with everything but the dirt mile. the dirt mile is a pretty good event. the rain did not bother me at monmouth, at least the races were formful and dirt horses could win. it was one of my best "cup" weekends. and i bet way more than the last two. rain is part of the deal in racing. this effort to make it all synthetic is a big mistake, horses run in mud they run on grass they run on dirt. its been that way since they were a breed on earth. whats next, running indoors on pillow feathers?

[randallscott35]

I'm guessing they'll be adding a Breeders Cup race for Mules soon, as well as one for Quarter horses.

[VOL JACK]

Speaking of stupid, Greg Ravioli said on the Jim Rome show Friday that 'RA had no excuse for not running in the B Cup because she ran one of her best races on poly at KEE.' I almost wrecked my truck.

[2Hot4TV]

Originally Posted by VOL JACK

Speaking of stupid, Greg Ravioli said on the Jim Rome show Friday that 'RA had no excuse for not running in the B Cup because she ran one of her best races on poly at KEE.' I almost wrecked my truck.

she had a good excuse, not wanting to be beaten by Zenyatta.