She's Done

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by Cardus

Pro-Ride and all other synthetic surfaces are not "fake dirt."

They are distinctly different surfaces than dirt.

And as we saw yet again this weekend, they should be viewed as such.

exactly.. they are much more "fake Turf" than they are "fake Dirt"

[slotdirt]

I'd wonder if all the Cali fans would think Zenyatta deserved horse of the year if she ran five times on NYRA tracks and never shipped any further than Saratoga to run.

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by slotdirt

I'd wonder if all the Cali fans would think Zenyatta deserved horse of the year if she ran five times on NYRA tracks and never shipped any further than Saratoga to run.

At least theoretically she would have faced Seventh Street, Icon Project, Swift Temper, Miss Isella, Seattle Smooth, Cocoa Beach and Music Note on more than one occassion. Who knows, might have even lured Rachel Alexandra into a showdown.

Granted, she dusted Life Is Sweet (who originated from NY) a couple of times, but that one's Ladies Classic was hardly definitive. Fortunately, she also took most of the La Canada series and the Santa Maragarita.

Just think if Zenyatta had beaten Life Is Sweet early in the year at Hollywood and/or Santa Anita, then went East for the summer and thrashed all those fillies mentioned above. Even without facing Rachel Alexandra she'd have a huge claim on HOY.

It would have been like Riboletta's 2000 campaign, but in reverse. And without the career-ending injury.

[slotdirt]

She didn't though. She stayed in the same 100 mile radius and shipped to Louisville only to have her connections wuss out of a race on - *shudder* - a wet track.

[Gander]

I'm for Rachel but I can see arguments for both. Zenyatta won this race a lot more easier than the margin of victory demonstrates, and this group was better than any group rachel beat, I dont care what surface it was run on.
But in Rachel's defense, she beat better horses more often, travelled to 6? race tracks to do it. Sure she aniliated a couple of very weak fields in the KY Oaks and the Moothe Goose, but Zenyatta beat weak fields every time she ran (except the BC Classic). I'm not sold on Life is Sweet's win elevating the field's Zenyatta beat all year either.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Gander

I'm for Rachel but I can see arguments for both. Zenyatta won this race a lot more easier than the margin of victory demonstrates, and this group was better than any group rachel beat, I dont care what surface it was run on.
But in Rachel's defense, she beat better horses more often, travelled to 6? race tracks to do it. Sure she aniliated a couple of very weak fields in the KY Oaks and the Moothe Goose, but Zenyatta beat weak fields every time she ran (except the BC Classic). I'm not sold on Life is Sweet's win elevating the field's Zenyatta beat all year either.

oaklawn
fairgrounds
churchill
pimlico
belmont
saratoga
monmouth

i think that's all the ones she raced on.

head to head you have rachel with almost twice as many races, with a record setter in the martha washington, a record margin in the oaks..three victories over males vs zenyatta with one. i think rachel got 5 gr 1's this year-how many did zenyatta get?
zenyatta's performance saturday was incredible-but i don't know that it was moreso than some of rachel's best.

[Gander]

Originally Posted by Danzig

oaklawn
fairgrounds
churchill
pimlico
belmont
saratoga
monmouth

i think that's all the ones she raced on.

head to head you have rachel with almost twice as many races, with a record setter in the martha washington, a record margin in the oaks..three victories over males vs zenyatta with one. i think rachel got 5 gr 1's this year-how many did zenyatta get?
zenyatta's performance saturday was incredible-but i don't know that it was moreso than some of rachel's best.

Grade 1's are kind of irrelevant when it comes to these two phenoms. They practically write Grade 1's just for these two.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Gander

Grade 1's are kind of irrelevant when it comes to these two phenoms. They practically write Grade 1's just for these two.

i'm just mentioning that for hoy voting purposes. it's a shame zenyatta is most likely thru, she may have 'done enough'. but i'd like to see her get the win streak record.

[CSC]

Originally Posted by Danzig

oaklawn
fairgrounds
churchill
pimlico
belmont
saratoga
monmouth

i think that's all the ones she raced on.

head to head you have rachel with almost twice as many races, with a record setter in the martha washington, a record margin in the oaks..three victories over males vs zenyatta with one. i think rachel got 5 gr 1's this year-how many did zenyatta get?
zenyatta's performance saturday was incredible-but i don't know that it was moreso than some of rachel's best.

If they both meet in the Classic next year at CD, and if Zenyatta can maintain her form at age 6, I think people will realize just who the better filly truly is and was.

[Gander]

Originally Posted by CSC

If they both meet in the Classic next year at CD, if Zenyatta can maintain her form, I think people will realize just who the better filly truly is and was.

Thats a might big IF but hope it happens.
I'd say there is a way greater chance you'll never see either run in another race again.

[NTamm1215]

Originally Posted by CSC

If they both meet in the Classic next year at CD, and if Zenyatta can maintain her form at age 6, I think people will realize just who the better filly truly is and was.

Do you have a dart-board at home with a picture of Rachel Alexandra?

NT

[slotdirt]

I'd take Rachel's Haskell over Zenyatta's Classic six days a week and twice on Sunday.

[Left Bank]

Originally Posted by slotdirt

I'd wonder if all the Cali fans would think Zenyatta deserved horse of the year if she ran five times on NYRA tracks and never shipped any further than Saratoga to run.

And to add to that, trained by Steve Assmussen.

[Dunbar]

They are afraid of a blemish on the perfect record. Which is ridiculous for a horse which has accomplished what she did this weekend.

They make a big fuss about how the fans were in love with her, and then they deprive those fans of the chance to see her run again, even though she is obviously in her prime.

There is really no reason to retire her now except to protect that perfect record.

Unlike a stallion prospect, she could make more running next year than she is likely to make from one more foal.

--Dunbar

[CSC]

As a racing fan I hope she comes back for a 2010 campaign. I think she could be a more dominant horse on dirt, contrary to belief it is harder to win consistently on synthetic tracks where there is less room for error and margin of wins are generally less than dirt.

I would be very comfortably with her chances from distances of 1 1/8 to 1 1/4 on tracks as in Churchill Downs and Saratoga, I think some will be surprised by her races on dirt if it should ever happen in the future.

[Gander]

Originally Posted by CSC

As a racing fan I hope she comes back for a 2010 campaign. I think she would be a more dominant horse on dirt, contrary to belief it is harder to win consistently on synthetic tracks where there is less room for error and margin of wins are less than dirt.

I would be very comfortably with her chances from distances of 1 1/8 to 1 1/4 on tracks like Churchill Downs and Saratoga, I think some may be surprised by her races on dirt if it should ever happen in the future.

What possible incentive would the owner have of ever running her on dirt next year? Exactly what races are out there that would prove anymore than what was proven on Saturday? I mean, aside from the Dubai World Cup which is now going to be run on the fake stuff, what race would she possibly ship for? The Whitney? The Woodward? We saw how watered down the older horse division has become is by the fields that were in there. Shes already beaten older horses and she is still undefeated. I think she is done racing period, but if she ever did come back it would make sense for one reason only- the Dubai World Cup.

[CSC]

Originally Posted by Gander

What possible incentive would the owner have of ever running her on dirt next year? Exactly what races are out there that would prove anymore than what was proven on Saturday? I mean, aside from the Dubai World Cup which is now going to be run on the fake stuff, what race would she possibly ship for? The Whitney? The Woodward? We saw how watered down the older horse division has become is by the fields that were in there. Shes already beaten older horses and she is still undefeated. I think she is done racing period, but if she ever did come back it would make sense for one reason only- the Dubai World Cup.

The consecutive streak record for one, a second BC classic, there is no point bringing her back to run in So Cal Fillies races now that she has beaten the boys, I would compact her schedule to 4-5 top races around America and maybe Dubai. There are still enough disbelievers out there that it would be a worthwhile risk, putting off motherhood for one yr is not out of the question in my mind.

[slotdirt]

Originally Posted by CSC

The consecutive streak record for one, a second BC classic, there is no point bringing her back to run in So Cal Fillies races now that she has beaten the boys, I would compact her schedule to 4-5 top races around America and maybe Dubai. There are still enough disbelievers out there that it would be a worthwhile risk, putting off motherhood for one yr is not out of the question in my mind.

Plus, it's not like she isn't lightly raced. 14 starts by the end of a 5YO's career is nothing - even by today's non-Southern Image standards.

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by Gander

What possible incentive would the owner have of ever running her on dirt next year? Exactly what races are out there that would prove anymore than what was proven on Saturday? I mean, aside from the Dubai World Cup which is now going to be run on the fake stuff, what race would she possibly ship for? The Whitney? The Woodward? We saw how watered down the older horse division has become is by the fields that were in there. Shes already beaten older horses and she is still undefeated. I think she is done racing period, but if she ever did come back it would make sense for one reason only- the Dubai World Cup.

Why do rich people need incentives to race their race horses? I mean she will make exactly $0 next year as a broodmare.. her baby wont race for a few years after that.. I doubt the owners will sell the baby.

Just race her! She's special! and she could win the Dubai race easily.

[slotdirt]

Come on, antitrust, they wouldn't run her at Churchill Downs on Derby weekend, you really think they'd take the risk of sending her to Dubai? No chance, lance. If she runs next year, it will make this year's schedule look arduous by comparison.