HOTY: If Zenyatta wins the Classic...

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by kgar311

you're joking right?

Yeah, I'm joking. I don't think Zenyatta could beat Macho Again or Mine That Bird (the runners up in photos in the Preakness and Woodward).

Macho Again would have won the BC Classic easily yesterday.

[kgar311]

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

Yeah, I'm joking. I don't think Zenyatta could beat Macho Again or Mine That Bird (the runners up in photos in the Preakness and Woodward).

Macho Again would have won the BC Classic easily yesterday.

Do you really think that was the same MTB that ran in the preakness? Zenyatta wouldn't have even beat MTB in the preakness she prob would have finished 4th behind Musket Man. MTB was at his peak in that race he's a shell of that horse now. If the classic was run on dirt yesterday no she would not have beaten Macho Again nor would she have beaten him or RA in the Woodward

[CSC]

Originally Posted by kgar311

Do you really think that was the same MTB that ran in the preakness? Zenyatta wouldn't have even beat MTB in the preakness she prob would have finished 4th behind Musket Man. MTB was at his peak in that race he's a shell of that horse now. If the classic was run on dirt yesterday no she would not have beaten Macho Again nor would she have beaten him or RA in the Woodward

You know she is by Street Cry the same sire of Street Sense who excelled at CD and Saratoga. Are you so sure she would be so bad on dirt(she has already won on at Oaklawn) to finish behind Musket Man? What makes you think she would be an inferior horse on dirt? I think you are pulling our legs here...

[kgar311]

Im done arguing about this. He's the last thing I have to say. There is a correct answer to this debate. Rachel is hands down superior to Zenyatta. Most of the points you triy to make about Zen. being HOY are very hypocritical in the sense of easy paths and ducking etc. There are only two reasons why anyone would think Zen is superior and one is a west coast bias, ie you live there and 2 you have a synthetic bias ie you feel running on wax and plastic has a place in horse racing and should determine a champion.

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by kgar311

Im done arguing about this. He's the last thing I have to say. There is a correct answer to this debate. Rachel is hands down superior to Zenyatta. Most of the points you triy to make about Zen. being HOY are very hypocritical in the sense of easy paths and ducking etc. There are only two reasons why anyone would think Zen is superior and one is a west coast bias, ie you live there and 2 you have a synthetic bias ie you feel running on wax and plastic has a place in horse racing and should determine a champion.

As I said in my previous post, Zenyatta ran great on the dirt winning the Apple Blossom very impressively in a fast time. I think you would be hard-pressed to find any handicapper on any coast that thinks Macho Again or Musket Man could beat Zenyatta on the dirt.

[letswastemoney]

Macho Again would not win the synthetic classic, because he's a dirt horse as well.

When the Classic is run at Churchill, maybe he has an very small chance.

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by kgar311

Do you really think that was the same MTB that ran in the preakness? Zenyatta wouldn't have even beat MTB in the preakness she prob would have finished 4th behind Musket Man. MTB was at his peak in that race he's a shell of that horse now. If the classic was run on dirt yesterday no she would not have beaten Macho Again nor would she have beaten him or RA in the Woodward

I agree with you that MTB is not the same horse right now. You get no argument from me there. But I don't know how you come to the conclusion that Zenyatta would not be a great horse on the dirt. She ran once on the dirt and she ran great. She blew Ginger Punch off the track in the Apple Blossom. She ran really fast that day too. The Oaklawn Handicap was that same day and she ran faster than the boys did in the Oaklawn Handicap. The Oaklawn Handicap had a strong field that year too. Macho Again would have been 25-1 in that race and would have had no shot of hitting the board.

[letswastemoney]

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

I agree with you that MTB is not the same horse right now. You get no argument from me there. But I don't know how you come to the conclusion that Zenyatta would not be a great horse on the dirt. She ran once on the dirt and she ran great. She blew Ginger Punch off the track in the Apple Blossom. She ran really fast that day too. The Oaklawn Handicap was that same day and she ran faster than the boys did in the Oaklawn Handicap. The Oaklawn Handicap had a strong field that year too. Macho Again would have been 25-1 in that race and would have had no shot of hitting the board.

Brownie Points blew Ginger Punch away as well. Maybe Ginger Punch had an off day.

[Danzig]

both fillies have had good years. who ends up being judged as having had the better year is yet to be seen. but there's no way of ever knowing which one of the two would triumph in whatever mythical race we want to set up in our minds. suffice it to say that both zenyatta and rachel are very, very special and that both will be remembered fondly in years to come. i'd imagine both will be used as a measuring stick for horses that we haven't yet seen.


native dancer is remembered now as having been a spectacular horse, one for the ages. he suffered only one blemish on his otherwise perfect career when his jock gave him a horrid ride in the derby. many place him on top of the heap as far as horses who only one two thirds of the t.c. not many still bring up the fact that he never faced a top older horse by the name of tom fool, another who is remembered fondly to this day. no one cares anymore that they never got a chance to square off. of course the breadth of years helps; with these two every one is still in the moment.

if zenyatta and rachel had faced each other, and i'd have loved to have seen it, one of them wouldn't have their perfect year. now they both do-might not be a panacea to everyone, but all we can do is appreciate what they both did.

[TitanSooner]

Originally Posted by Danzig

both fillies have had good years. who ends up being judged as having had the better year is yet to be seen. but there's no way of ever knowing which one of the two would triumph in whatever mythical race we want to set up in our minds. suffice it to say that both zenyatta and rachel are very, very special and that both will be remembered fondly in years to come. i'd imagine both will be used as a measuring stick for horses that we haven't yet seen.


native dancer is remembered now as having been a spectacular horse, one for the ages. he suffered only one blemish on his otherwise perfect career when his jock gave him a horrid ride in the derby. many place him on top of the heap as far as horses who only one two thirds of the t.c. not many still bring up the fact that he never faced a top older horse by the name of tom fool, another who is remembered fondly to this day. no one cares anymore that they never got a chance to square off. of course the breadth of years helps; with these two every one is still in the moment.

if zenyatta and rachel had faced each other, and i'd have loved to have seen it, one of them wouldn't have their perfect year. now they both do-might not be a panacea to everyone, but all we can do is appreciate what they both did.

bingo

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by letswastemoney

Brownie Points blew Ginger Punch away as well. Maybe Ginger Punch had an off day.

Ginger Punch may not have fired that day. I agree with you that that is quite possible. In fact, I would guess that Ginger Punch didn't run her best that day. But that wouldn't take away from Zenyatta's perfomance that day. She won so easily and she ran really fast. She ran 1 1/16 miles in 1:42 3/5. The Oaklawn Handicap which was run that same day and went in 1:50 2/5 (1 1/8 miles).

[parsixfarms]

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

Ginger Punch may not have fired that day. I agree with you that that is quite possible. In fact, I would guess that Ginger Punch didn't run her best that day. But that wouldn't take away from Zenyatta's perfomance that day. She won so easily and she ran really fast. She ran 1 1/16 miles in 1:42 3/5. The Oaklawn Handicap which was run that same day and went in 1:50 2/5 (1 1/8 miles).

The chart for the race says 1:48.3 (although no fractional times, so I don't know if there were any timing issues that day).

[NTamm1215]

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

Ginger Punch may not have fired that day. I agree with you that that is quite possible. In fact, I would guess that Ginger Punch didn't run her best that day. But that wouldn't take away from Zenyatta's perfomance that day. She won so easily and she ran really fast. She ran 1 1/16 miles in 1:42 3/5. The Oaklawn Handicap which was run that same day and went in 1:50 2/5 (1 1/8 miles).

No it didn't. The final time of the OP Handicap was 1:48 and 3/5.

NT

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by NTamm1215

No it didn't. Stop talking out of your ass about the races that day. The final time of the OP Handicap was 1:48 and 3/5.

NT

I wasn't talking out of my ass, but I was incorrect. If you go to racereplays.com, they show the final time was 1:50.34. They obviously made a mistake. There was a problem with the clocking of the Oaklawn Handicap. I remember that. To this day, I'm not sure if any website has the fractions.

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by NTamm1215

No it didn't. The final time of the OP Handicap was 1:48 and 3/5.

NT

Yes, go to racereplays.com, pull up the race and hit the results tab. They show the final time as 1:50.34. I think that their number is wrong . I think the equibase number is right.

[NTamm1215]

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

I agree with you that MTB is not the same horse right now. You get no argument from me there. But I don't know how you come to the conclusion that Zenyatta would not be a great horse on the dirt. She ran once on the dirt and she ran great. She blew Ginger Punch off the track in the Apple Blossom. She ran really fast that day too. The Oaklawn Handicap was that same day and she ran faster than the boys did in the Oaklawn Handicap. The Oaklawn Handicap had a strong field that year too. Macho Again would have been 25-1 in that race and would have had no shot of hitting the board.

Did you time her gallop out that day at Oaklawn? The Apple Blossom and Oaklawn Handicap are run at two different distances

NT

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by NTamm1215

Did you time her gallop out that day at Oaklawn? The Apple Blossom and Oaklawn Handicap are run at two different distances

NT

No, I didn't time her gallop out. LOL. I know the one race is 1 1/16 miles compared to 1 1/8 miles. I was actually at Oaklawn that day. I think that her race was the faster race. I mean I think 1 1/16 miles in 1:42 3/4 is faster than 1 1/8 miles in 1:50 2/5. I think she could have run her last 1/8th in less than 8 seconds.

[NTamm1215]

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

No, I didn't time her gallop out. LOL. I know the one race is 1 1/16 miles compared to 1 1/8 miles. I was actually at Oaklawn that day. I think that her race was the faster race. I mean I think 1 1/16 miles in 1:42 3/4 is faster than 1 1/8 miles in 1:50 2/5. I think she could have run her last 1/8th in less than 8 seconds.

Can you find me the chart that says the OP Handicap was run in 1:50 and 2/5?

Cause Equibase says it was run in 1:48.60.

NT

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by NTamm1215

Can you find me the chart that says the OP Handicap was run in 1:50 and 2/5?

Cause Equibase says it was run in 1:48.60.

NT

I'm starting to wonder if the Equibase time is right. If you watch the replay and clock the race, you will get 1:50. I know that there is nothing wrong with my stop-watch because when I clock the Apple Blossom I get 1:42 3/5 which is the correct time.

As I said, there was a problem with the clock on the race. If you watch the replay, you will see that the fractions were all messed up. They showed the opening 1/4 mile going in :19 and the half going in :41. The final time showed as 1:50 but how could you really trust that after the fractions were totally wrong. So nobody was sure what the final time was after the race. They ended up coming up with something a day or two later but I can't remember what it was. All I know is that right now Equibase shows the final time was 1:48 3/5 (I'm trusting you on that). But if you clock the race, you will get 1:50. If you go to racereplays.com, they show the final time as 1:50.34.

If you read any articles about the race, they show the final time as 1:50.34.

Here are a couple of articles:

http://www.ntra.com/content.aspx?type=news&id=31799

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/horse...42525327_x.htm

[DaTruth]

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

The Oaklawn Handicap was that same day and she ran faster than the boys did in the Oaklawn Handicap. The Oaklawn Handicap had a strong field that year too. Macho Again would have been 25-1 in that race and would have had no shot of hitting the board.

Ah, the Oaklawn Handicap has attracted some great horses: Cigar, Best Pal, etc. But not that year. That year the race was filled with slugs Tiago, Heatseeker, Reporting For Duty, Circular Quay, Buzzard's Bay, Fairbanks, and Silver Lord.