HOTY: If Zenyatta wins the Classic...

[CSC]

Originally Posted by hockey2315

Maybe because dirt is a natural surface that has been used to measure which horse was the best for thousands of years?

You don't have dirt specialists like you do synth specialists.

I think synth racing is more interesting from a betting perspective (because, for instance, people made Pyro 5-1 yesterday), but it allows horses who are nothing special on dirt to pass their more talented rivals when those rivals can't handle the fake stuff.

I don't think Zenyatta falls into the category of synth specialist, though.

(I realize how played out this whole argument is. . . )

Is it time they add a 3rd catagory for eclispe awards? Best Synth horse...Given the hand all horses were dealt this yr I would be hard pressed to blame Sheriff's/Moss for the campaign they had drawn for Z with especially the way it played out yesterday, if the BC was held at CD they may have chosen a more ambitious campaign, they did go in the Classic rather than the Ladies Classic, it seems not many have given them credit for this also. They could have gone the Peppers Pride route but they put up something yesterday.

Agreed this argument has been played out and will be played out again no doubt, but regardless thank you for the thoughtful response.

[hockey2315]

Originally Posted by CSC

Is it time they add a 3rd catagory for eclispe awards? Best Synth horse...Given the hand all horses were dealt this yr I would be hard pressed to blame Sheriff's/Moss for the campaign they had drawn for Z, if the BC was held at CD they may have chosen a more ambitious campaign, they did go in the Classic rather than the Ladies Classic, it seems not many have given them credit for this also. They could have gone the Peppers Pride route but they put up something yesterday.

Agreed this argument has been played out and will be played out again no doubt, but regardless thank you for the thoughtful response.

There was no way they could go to the Ladies' Classic. . . wasn't a very hard decision.

Just like running RA in the Woodward instead of the Travers was a no-brainer.

[DaTruth]

How do they stack up on Thorograph numbers. As I posted earlier, RA smoked Z on the Beyers.

[3kings]

Originally Posted by DaTruth

How do they stack up on Thorograph numbers. As I posted earlier, RA smoked Z on the Beyers.

Synthetic Beyers are normally lower than dirt #'s. Hard to do a comparison that way.

[Travis Stone]

Originally Posted by hockey2315

There was no way they could go to the Ladies' Classic. . . wasn't a very hard decision.

Just like running RA in the Woodward instead of the Travers was a no-brainer.

Although I respect Jerry Bailey and think he does a great job on TV, I thought he was way off when he said Rachel and co. ducked the tougher spot when they chose the Woodward over the Travers shortly after the Classic.

[hockey2315]

Originally Posted by Travis Stone

Although I respect Jerry Bailey and think he does a great job on TV, I thought he was way off when he said Rachel and co. ducked the tougher spot when they chose the Woodward over the Travers shortly after the Classic.

That was the beauty of it - it LOOKED like a harder spot, but Summer Bird and Quality Road were/are superior to anyone running in the Travers. Even if they were ducking it would be hard to "prove" - whatever that means.

Macho Again and co. are obviously better than Anabaa's Creation, etc. though.

[Danzig]

i can see that making a third set of awards would make sense, but i don't think poly will be around in future to make it worth the trouble. chrb has already said they jumped the gun, that it wasn't what it was billed to be, and that the tracks out there can return to dirt at any time. of course the cost would be prohibitive at this point.
at any rate, rather than argue who beat whom....who won more gr 1's? what do the stats for the year for both tell us?

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Travis Stone

Although I respect Jerry Bailey and think he does a great job on TV, I thought he was way off when he said Rachel and co. ducked the tougher spot when they chose the Woodward over the Travers shortly after the Classic.

I completely disagree. The Woodward field was a bunch of proven subpar older horses. The Travers was against two (at the time you could say 4) up and coming horses who already were running figures better then the Woodward field. Not to mention the distance factor which further makes the Travers the tougher spot. I thought Summer bird and Quality Roads performance in the Gold Cup even further vindicates the notion that the Travers was not only tougher but much tougher than the Woodward.

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

I completely disagree. The Woodward field was a bunch of proven subpar older horses. The Travers was against two (at the time you could say 4) up and coming horses who already were running figures better then the Woodward field. Not to mention the distance factor which further makes the Travers the tougher spot. I thought Summer bird and Quality Roads performance in the Gold Cup even further vindicates the notion that the Travers was not only tougher but much tougher than the Woodward.

This really is a poor opinion.. Where is Summer Birds big race on anything but slop.. QR at 10f's was a complete toss.. Summer Bird might be just ok on anything but slop and as we already know Rachel destroyed him in the slop. The Travers field has been hardly flattered nor has the Woodward field but the seasoned horses that made up the Woodward at least were triple digit BSF animals. How many in the Travers will ever be triple digit horses at 9 or10fs again?

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by freddymo

This really is a poor opinion.. Where is Summer Birds big race on anything but slop.. QR at 10f's was a complete toss.. Summer Bird might be just ok on anything but slop and as we already know Rachel destroyed him in the slop. The Travers field has been hardly flattered nor has the Woodward field but the seasoned horses that made up the Woodward at least were triple digit BSF animals. How many in the Travers will ever be triple digit horses at 9 or10fs again?

The Travers field produced the first two finishers in the Gold Cup (a pretty fair race) while the Woodward field has done ........what have they done exactly?

Bullsbay?
Macho Again?

Yeah right freddy, Summer bird and Quality Road arent better than the Woodward field.

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

The Travers field produced the first two finishers in the Gold Cup (a pretty fair race) while the Woodward field has done ........what have they done exactly?

Bullsbay?
Macho Again?

Yeah right freddy, Summer bird and Quality Road arent better than the Woodward field.

Both those horses were pointed for the Woodward.. QR is a best at 8 or 9 and SB is may just be a slop colt.. What makes you think he is so good..

[CSC]

Originally Posted by Travis Stone

Although I respect Jerry Bailey and think he does a great job on TV, I thought he was way off when he said Rachel and co. ducked the tougher spot when they chose the Woodward over the Travers shortly after the Classic.

Bailey doesn't sugarcoat anything, many don't like him because he speaks his mind but I don't know how anyone could think Macho Again and Bullsbay are better than Summer Bird or Quality Road now and then....In my opinion the connections picked the easier spot and laid out the premptive notion if she won she had done enough this year. If Bailey wants to call it 'ducking' I'm 100% behind that notion.

[kgar311]

Originally Posted by CSC

Bailey doesn't sugarcoat anything, many don't like him because he speaks his mind but I don't know how anyone could think Macho Again and Bullsbay are better than Summer Bird or Quality Road now and then....In my opinion the connections picked the easier spot and laid out the premptive notion if she won she had done enough this year. If Bailey wants to call it 'ducking' I'm 100% behind that notion.

Oh yea, thats why Jess Jackson bought Rachel to duck horses, thats it I do recall that was the reasoning behind the purchase. I remember JJ saying all year that he wasnt going to run her on synthetics. Zenyatta's connections confirmed she would race in the Classic like 2 weeks before it was run. How is that ducking? His argument holds no water. I commend Jess for taking a stand against synthetics this year, good for him. That surface is 100% rubbish. It made his superstar Curlin look like an average horse why would he do that to her. If I were him as long as I was still breathing and they ran the BC on the rubber and carpet I would purchase the best horse in training on dirt that year and hold him or her out of the breeders cup until they learn their lesson about that **** surface.
As far as Bailey goes, him allowing himself to get caught up in the moment with no clear reasoning behind his statements, forgetting all the amazing accomplishments by RA, ALL YEAR LONG and saying they were ducking and anointing Zen HOY immediately after the race has me questioning his sanity.

[CSC]

Originally Posted by kgar311

Oh yea, thats why Jess Jackson bought Rachel to duck horses, thats it I do recall that was the reasoning behind the purchase. I remember JJ saying all year that he wasnt going to run her on synthetics. Zenyatta's connections confirmed she would race in the Classic like 2 weeks before it was run. How is that ducking? His argument holds no water. I commend Jess for taking a stand against synthetics this year, good for him. That surface is 100% rubbish. It made his superstar Curlin look like an average horse why would he do that to her. If I were him as long as I was still breathing and they ran the BC on the rubber and carpet I would purchase the best horse in training on dirt that year and hold him or her out of the breeders cup until they learn their lesson about that **** surface.
As far as Bailey goes, him allowing himself to get caught up in the moment with no clear reasoning behind his statements, forgetting all the amazing accomplishments by RA, ALL YEAR LONG and saying they were ducking and anointing Zen HOY immediately after the race has me questioning his sanity.

He only wants to race her if the conditions overwhelmingly favor her, when the result is not so much in doubt. On the surface yes he raced her in tougher spots, but upon closer examination he didn't campaign in the most challenging spots to make you question the result. It's up to each person to decide if they want to call this a duck or not. But he chose the safest route to pile on the resume.

[kgar311]

Originally Posted by CSC

He only wants to race her if the conditions overwhelmingly favor her, when the result is not so much in doubt. On the surface yes he raced her in tougher spots, but upon closer examination he didn't campaign in the most challenging spots to make you question the result. It's up to each person to decide if they want to call this a duck or not. But he chose the safest route to pile on the resume.

If going the safest route is racing her against the 3yr old boys for the most part after buying her and then stepping her up to older males and racing and beating the horses that ran 1-2 in the grade 1 Whitney a few weeks back on the same surface, then I really don't know what you would consider tougher spots. Oh yea and wasnt she the first filly to win the Woodward? I though so.
Believe me when I tell you that Zenyatta had ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO with RA not running in the classic PERIOD.......... The decision was set in stone before the purchase was even made. It absolute Tom Foolery to think otherwise

[DaTruth]

Originally Posted by CSC

He only wants to race her if the conditions overwhelmingly favor her, when the result is not so much in doubt. On the surface yes he raced her in tougher spots, but upon closer examination he didn't campaign in the most challenging spots to make you question the result. It's up to each person to decide if they want to call this a duck or not. But he chose the safest route to pile on the resume.

He ran her three times against males. How is that not taking the most challenging spots? It wasn't like they shipped her to New York after the purchase and stuck to the Goose-CCOA-Alabama-Beldame route.