Let's go Yankees

[3kings]

Originally Posted by gales0678

torre did it with a-rod was he not a franchise player?

Gales, I don't recall the situation. Details? He must have had a reason or was trying to teach him a lesson. Howard is still a young maturing player you don't want to instill in him that he can't hit top quality lefties(even though he can't). There had to be an expectation that Pettite would only last 4-6 innings on 3 days rest and you wanted him in the clean-up spot to bat against the Yankee middle relievers and protect Utley.

[Gander]

So if you are Ryan Howard and you know you struggle with lefties, and you know the Yankees have pretty much all lefties, and very good ones at that, you would rather stay in the game and cost your team a chance at the title?
Rather than be a man and let somebody else come in and replace you, somebody that could do better than go 3 for 19, and a total of 1 RBI in the first 5 games?

Ya, this makes sense. Because you are a "franchise player", just stay in on and things will evntually go your way...

And Chuck, I probably watched about half the amount of innings you did so maybe I am not the best person to say that the Yankees were a lot better than the Phillies. But I was actually referring to the talent level and the potential each team had. I saw a lot of the Yankees this year and I dont think they played near to their potential this postseason, yet they still moonwalked through the post season. Yawn, good for the Yankees, glad its over with. I am baseballed out.

[3kings]

Originally Posted by Gander

So if you are Ryan Howard and you know you struggle with lefties, and you know the Yankees have pretty much all lefties, and very good ones at that, you would rather stay in the game and cost your team a chance at the title?
Rather than be a man and let somebody else come in and replace you, somebody that could do better than go 3 for 19, and a total of 1 RBI in the first 5 games?

Ya, this makes sense. Because you are a "franchise player", just stay in on and things will evntually go your way...

And Chuck, I probably watched about half the amount of innings you did so maybe I am not the best person to say that the Yankees were a lot better than the Phillies. But I was actually referring to the talent level and the potential each team had. I saw a lot of the Yankees this year and I dont think they played near to their potential this postseason, yet they still moonwalked through the post season. Yawn, good for the Yankees, glad its over with. I am baseballed out.

You didn't see the Yankees sitting Texeira did you? Good players go in slumps too. The Yankees were a superior team which became magnified when you got no production from your clean-up hitter.

[Gander]

Originally Posted by 3kings

You didn't see the Yankees sitting Texeira did you? Good players go in slumps too. The Yankees were a superior team which became magnified when you got no production from your clean-up hitter.

The difference is the Yankees are so good they can absorb a Texeria hitting slump and nobody is better in the field than Tex. The Phillies cant win without production from Howard. They arent that deep.

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by Gander

The difference is the Yankees are so good they can absorb a Texeria hitting slump and nobody is better in the field than Tex. The Phillies cant win without production from Howard. They arent that deep.

they are as deep as anyone in offense. Not in pitching.

Rollins, Vicotorino, Utley, Howard, Werth, Ibanez, Ruiz is as deep as it gets.

The problem is that only Utley, Werth and Ruiz stepped up. Got nothing from Rollins, Victorino, Ibanez and Howard. Of course Howard will get the most made out of this but if we get production from the other 3 and not howard we would have been fine. Its not like the Yanks were in shutdown mode.

[Gander]

Originally Posted by Antitrust32

they are as deep as anyone in offense. Not in pitching.

Rollins, Vicotorino, Utley, Howard, Werth, Ibanez, Ruiz is as deep as it gets.

The problem is that only Utley, Werth and Ruiz stepped up. Got nothing from Rollins, Victorino, Ibanez and Howard. Of course Howard will get the most made out of this but if we get production from the other 3 and not howard we would have been fine. Its not like the Yanks were in shutdown mode.

From what I saw this postseason, the Yankees didnt play all that well. They played to the level of their competition which outside of the Phillies, doesnt say a whole lot! I think the Phillies shot their load in the NL playoffs and outside of a few guys like Utley and Werth, had little left for the stretch drive. The Phillies were a very good team, a lot better than that sad sack of players I root for who quit on their fans.

[gales0678]

from what i see the phillies better get their pitching right next year, the braves and marlins are young hungary teams in the nl east on the upswing

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by Gander

From what I saw this postseason, the Yankees didnt play all that well. They played to the level of their competition which outside of the Phillies, doesnt say a whole lot! I think the Phillies shot their load in the NL playoffs and outside of a few guys like Utley and Werth, had little left for the stretch drive. The Phillies were a very good team, a lot better than that sad sack of players I root for who quit on their fans.

Phils have a deep line-up.. they were hot and won quick against the dodgers. I wonder if the 6 day wait between nlds and ws really affected them. No excuses but when your hot it would suck to sit for a week.

[MaTH716]

Torre was an idiot to bat A-Rod 8th. I can't believe people can honestly suggest that Howard should have been benched. Maybe Manuel could have flipped him and Werth, but to suggest that Howard should have been benched is moronic.
With the exception of Utley, Ruiz and Werth the offense floundered, period. Just like the Yanks a couple of years ago, when nobody hit and A-Rod took the blame for everything. Captain America hit into about 5 dp's but it was all about A-rod futility. I guess that's what Howard is dealing with now. Come to think of it, I'm not sure how many situations Howard was in, that he left men on base. I really don't think it was a ton (I could be wrong, but they averaged leaving about 6 men on base per game).
Also, even if you did bench Howard, who would play at first Greg Dobbs? Come On, it's all crazy talk. It's almost like all the Lidge talk, who else do they have to put in? If you are a Phillies fan, it's just unfortunate that Howard had a tough series. But most of the other guys didn't pick up the slack. The opposite could be said about some of the Yanks picking up Texieria.
But if you really think about it, the Yanks were ripe to be knocked off. Decent starting pitching (Burnett was the only lights out performance). CC and Petitte were good but not over powering. Leaky bullpen before Mo. And a lineup that got nothing offensively from their 3 hitter, plus a group at the bottom that collectively batted aroun .188. But their pitchers made pitches when needed and a couple of guys got key hits when needed.
They were definitely there to be had by a very comparable team.

[MaTH716]

Oh yeah, the Yanks Table setters of Jeter and Damon did their jobs of getting on for the 3,4,5 hitters versus Rollins and Victorino not getting/being on for Utley (especially the 4 out of 5 dingers). Who knows maybe they have to pitch to Howard differently if there are men on base.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Gander

So if you are Ryan Howard and you know you struggle with lefties, and you know the Yankees have pretty much all lefties, and very good ones at that, you would rather stay in the game and cost your team a chance at the title?
Rather than be a man and let somebody else come in and replace you, somebody that could do better than go 3 for 19, and a total of 1 RBI in the first 5 games?

Ya, this makes sense. Because you are a "franchise player", just stay in on and things will evntually go your way...

And Chuck, I probably watched about half the amount of innings you did so maybe I am not the best person to say that the Yankees were a lot better than the Phillies. But I was actually referring to the talent level and the potential each team had. I saw a lot of the Yankees this year and I dont think they played near to their potential this postseason, yet they still moonwalked through the post season. Yawn, good for the Yankees, glad its over with. I am baseballed out.

Who would they play if Howard sat?

And who on the Yankees outside of Tex didnt hit well in the playoffs? Swisher?

I mean where are the Yankees that much more talented than Philly?
I will give you 3rd. Posada is a better hitter than Ruiz, no doubt. The 2nd and 3rd starters. The closer. OK that is 5 out of 25 guys. Yet utley is clearly a better 2nd baseman and Werth is better than Swisher. So......the fact is that the Yankees won 4 out of 6 more or less because their pitchers better dealt with the Philly line up than vice versa. And when you spend as much in the off season on your top 2 guys, you should.

Baseball is a game meant to be played everyday over a period of time. The way the playoffs are set up clearly favors an old team like NY with a #1 pitcher who can go on short rest. I understand that these are the conditions that are and will be played under and teams can moild their teams as such. But the while yankees were the better team, it was hardly because Ryan howard didnt hit or bred lidge blew one game but because outside of Cliff lee their starters simply couldnt keep them close enough.

What always amazes me is how Oakland, San Diego and MN can come up with these light out bullpens every year made up of retreads and wash out guys yet Philly and the yankees can have such shaky pens? Outside of mariano who is a freak of nature the rest of the Yankees bullpen was costly and weak. The Phils use Chan Ho, enough said.

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

What always amazes me is how Oakland, San Diego and MN can come up with these light out bullpens every year made up of retreads and wash out guys yet Philly and the yankees can have such shaky pens? Outside of mariano who is a freak of nature the rest of the Yankees bullpen was costly and weak. The Phils use Chan Ho, enough said.

Oakland, sd and minn's bullpens arent put in the same pressure situations obviously as the yanks or phils. Of course they are lights out...during the regular. The yankees bullpen over the second half of the season was awesome. Hughes was looking like the "bridge to Mo". The playoffs expose everyone.

And I don't understand how the yanks bullpen was so costly. Who was expensive really besides MO?

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

Oakland, sd and minn's bullpens arent put in the same pressure situations obviously as the yanks or phils. Of course they are lights out...during the regular. The yankees bullpen over the second half of the season was awesome. Hughes was looking like the "bridge to Mo". The playoffs expose everyone.

And I don't understand how the yanks bullpen was so costly. Who was expensive really besides MO?

Yeah sure. Only in NY or Philly is there pressure. LOL.

I mean why not always give an answer with no tangible way to measure? For middle relief pitchers the pressure is the same regrdless of where or when you pitch because most of them are a few bad outings from being gone. More pressure to pitch in NY or more pressure to pitch for your job?

At the very least you could have pointed out that Oak and SD are very favorable towards pitchers and Philly and NY obviously arent.